Episode 97

people welcome to another amazing episode of Finding Peaks Yours Truly president and founder Chris Burns more specifically and for our guests today just a big recovery cheerleader so let’s go for that I am so excited today to get this show going we got Bryce Givens from Elevate sober home what up let’s go we got Kyle Van dongen I’m from sofferson sober living in the house both executive directors and founders of both of those operations and more specifically Kyle is a Peaks recovery alumni let’s go and we were talking before the show on just how different um the process was back then how different we were you know we were doing um Sober Living homes with some PHP and IOP and driving people into the center and um Kyle is a great Testament of what recovery can do as well as Bryce but before we get this show going I just wanted to pull up a picture for the viewers if possible there it is beautiful so how long ago is that Kyle that would be so September of 2015. okay so I’m coming up on eight years of sobriety at the end of this month actually I showed this picture to our case manager before I came over here they’re like that’s not Kyle and they zoomed in I said that’s Kyle yeah but that just shows you I mean that was on Kyle’s graduation you’d been there what six months yep yeah and that’s his therapist Robert Johnson who’s still working in the field still an awesome professional and human just wanted to bring that up and grateful to have you guys on the show today yeah thanks for having us thank you very much this is where I bring on Amazing professionals uh but for me even better humans I had a great opportunity to connect with you guys over the winter Symposium I really enjoyed the authenticity and the vulnerability that you all bring I just couldn’t wait to bring you guys on the show these guys are doing tremendous things in the community up in Denver getting people integrated into the community by way of just moving our bodies and connecting just really infectious just some level of care that you guys are getting excited about and moving through and just grateful to be a small part of that and so without further Ado let’s get into it um Kyle what is um I know pieces of it most certainly but what what is your why why do you do what you do today in your recovery yeah that’s a great question um you’re very well spoken you’re a good host um I mean I think it’s without making a super long drawn out answer why is like just to help guys that were in the same situation I was in right like I saw the value that it brought to my life um I saw a small like Niche that I could get into um that I felt I was good at and I just want to give back that’s it um I want to show others that it’s possible it’s possible through different means as well it’s not like a one-size-fits-all program um brings me uh you know tremendous level of fulfillment yeah um makes me feel good about myself it helps my recovery my sobriety um I would say like my why is just to give back what was given to me um and enjoy my life enjoy my recovery yeah that’s cool man I remember when we used to hang out you know nearly eight years ago uh and we used to talk a lot about this recovery process and it being directly proportionate to our ability to give it away yeah and even though I don’t I’m not an active member of the 12-step Community anymore and I still walk with that to a degree and I love what you’re doing at soprison with respect to showing people all of the ways in all of the pathways because I think what that highlights for the individual who’s suffering specifically from shame is it allows them to see themselves within your program and find a home in that and I think that’s really really cool and you come by this really honestly you have a story of um before you came to Peaks right what did that look like uh what what do you mean specifically like what what I was doing before I got to peace yeah like you had you had some struggles with finding recovery um I went through Peaks was probably Last Resort um it was my six six or seventh time yeah um in the the previous right before I had come to Peaks when I was at another facility uh Robert Jocelyn who was my counselor two times in a row thank God for him yeah he had told me that I needed to go somewhere long term and it was before Peaks existed Red Rocks didn’t exist these six months are these longer term treatment centers at that time um so he tried to get me to go out to Prescott and I just wasn’t willing at the time I was like that’s terrifying I don’t want to commit to something that long um so I struggled figuring out what my recovery looked like what was going to work best for me and uh prior coming to Peaks um I hit that low where when I checked into treatment that last time I just threw up the you know threw on the towel and just told somebody else to tell me what to do yeah um and just kind of gave into the process and just said just send me somewhere and yeah Peaks is where I landed yeah it’s cool man it’s a really really cool recovery story and although Peaks and the relationships we have with our clients has certainly changed today there’s a level of that care that you’re bringing into the community today which is really really cool and you know I always say I had I had Nick on here a handful of weeks ago it’s a goal is like a professional and your why speaks to it it’s like man if I could help one person man you’ve helped like a hundred so let’s go it’s so cool for sure I love how this thing moves downhill in a really infectious and intentional way yeah it does um and really that why speaks to it all man is is my recovery is directly proportionate to my ability to give it away and it really satiates the soul to be able to give this stuff back well I think it’s like a product of your environment as well like going through as many treatment facilities as I did and then you know last one being Peaks and seeing what you guys did um that kind of rubs off on you yeah and you see how your life looks or how your house manager lives look and uh you want that yeah and you see what you’re doing for others and it’s like I can do this I’m I’m him right like we all came from the the same story the same background um it gives you that hope of like cool I have something to offer finally right yeah that purpose when you got that purpose it can be really directionally driven yeah yeah it’s really cool to see man just watching you and out on social media doing your videos just really in Northern Colorado just hyping up the recovery Community it’s like every time I see that man it just warms my heart I appreciate it appreciate you checking in so grateful to have you here Bryce what’s up man Ultras physical stuff going on he’s out in the community doing stuff with Elevate recovery homes before we get to that what’s your why my why similar to what your guys’s why is is you know really to a b of service but to really help people find and maximize their potential and self-actualize um simply put yeah that’s what it is help people reach their full potential be the best versions of themselves that they can be that’s what I’m here to do I love that too because in that statement like so simply put it’s like everybody has greatness living inside totally you know and I’m gonna help you find it for you you don’t need to change you exactly we just need to get back to that Center yeah that’s it man find yourself reconnect with yourself and and you know really dig deep and that’s why I resonate with Ultras and hard physically challenging things is because it’s like you know when you’re in that suffer Fest you’re in that zone and you’re um you know you’re digging deep like the only person that you can rely on is you me myself and I yeah to get through it and so just helping people find that in whatever Arena that is for them you know or or just giving them a platform to really um you know encourage them to look deeper is what I want to try to do yeah and it really does too it’s like in some of those individual sports in recovery really have this opportunity to prop people up and show them how valuable in a way that they are and how much they can actually accomplish totally um because I think sometimes as humans we really sell ourselves short and most certainly when we’re suffering from a mental illness I’ll be a depression anxiety whatever it is we oftentimes don’t believe in ourselves totally and so somebody like you showing up and saying hey we’ve done these things and also look at where I’ve been yeah you know um where have you been so for me um you know I’ve been a lot of places not a lot of things but for me I found myself getting into recovery not by choice like many of us um you know I I ended up getting into some legal trouble and was sentenced to a Therapeutic Community and I went to Pier One which was a very militaristic behavioral modification rehab very familiar saved my life yeah saved my life one of our best therapists one of my favorite humans on Earth Bonita Wilder went to here yeah it was a pure I don’t know if it’s a women’s program The Haven yeah yeah she talked about doing the monad monad yeah man that’s crazy so they’re like I mean it was it was wild going there I had gone to rehab you know and been relapsing for the better part of a decade or half a decade or so finally went there and uh it gave me some time to really separate myself and really you know talk about going inward doing some introspection and learning who I was and what I was all about and learning about my psychology and how to reframe my thoughts and practicing all the stuff that you know the modalities that are practiced today in a lot of treatment centers CBT DBT you know ssic and seeking safety and all these things around other people who had been experiencing these same things and I mean it was really intensive yeah and so for me that’s where it kind of really shifted my mentality that was the start of my recovery Journey you know it still took a few years for me to handle the the legal ramifications of my actions and my behavior so um you know that was really my recovery process and then you know I had to do some time in prison and so I got out of prison and I was working at a youth baseball facility that I still am very close with today and just trying to you know give back and and work around kids and be in athletics but the recovery industry kept like drawing me back in um and I felt that I was you know I resonated with that and resonated with people in recovery and so that’s kind of what led me down this path is like well I’ve always been an athlete you know I grew up the son of a professional athlete and I always aspired to play professional sports and what sports did you play I played football okay cool yeah played up at CU sko Buffs yeah offensive tackle oh yeah so you were bigger I was bigger much bigger they’re feeding you up there yeah man it was great yeah so I played up there there and through my football career away but I’m really excited for what’s happening in Boulder you know bringing coach Prime up there I can’t wait I’m going to the Black Gold game nice all right Matt came up to me Marsha and he’s like I got six tickets nice that’s awesome we’ll have to go to a game together yeah absolutely I will for sure be at the Arizona uh yeah sweet wow I didn’t know that it’s really cool so that’s kind of I’ve always had this like you know mentality that’s geared towards competition and Athletics and um you know for me it’s like I didn’t get into Triathlon or an ultra endurance stuff until really I was you know I’m now about five years into recovery and and right getting out of prison uh I wanted to find something challenging that I could kind of dedicate some time and energy and effort to and and so for me it was Iron Man um so I I got into Iron Man and went you know balls deep yeah and you know that was right around the covid time so I’d train for two years right and like I didn’t even get to do my first race until two years after I started so I was like man this is a drag yeah crazy like 20 hour plus weeks and and whatnot but finally got some Iron Man’s under my belt and uh I was fortunate to go to the Iron Man World Championships in St George last year which was just like next level man it was so cool but just finding that stuff like finding the the mentality um of like persevering right is like was so relatable to like me and my recovery and like I want to be able to share that with other people yeah yeah and that’s really cool and I appreciate you being so honest it’s an open in here because I I love when the viewers can see somebody like college football player yeah all there yeah right moving through it great looking guy in the community doing it you know what I mean like I think it’s important to do this because I think sometimes our viewers unfortunately conceptualize Addiction in a much different way totally absolutely you know I think your both of your stories in a way are so powerful um and dynamic and so it makes a lot of sense about your why and what you guys are doing um that’s cool yeah yeah man the the Denver Community is lucky to have you guys a part of that we’re super lucky I mean not to have met each other and really kind of started our businesses right around the same time that we that we did and um you know being of the same age and having a lot of the same values and interests and likes and being able to kind of like grow our businesses alongside each other and really the reception within the whole community of Denver has been like just wild because it’s like so tight-knit and close and like collaborative man we’ve just been super blessed like super fortunate yeah I do love that about Denver for sure it really is like kind of everybody kind of working together totally it doesn’t feel super competitive yeah I mean there’s some out there right sure um the ones that matter we’re working with here yeah it’s awesome yeah and I love and I may have said it on the front end but with the offer all Pathways sober livings right or residential recovery homes and I think that’s really really cool and it kind of leads into my next question is is all Pathways means hey we’re trauma informed hey we’re here to meet you where you’re at and Define a path for your recovery that could potentially fit you like a glove and then you might even get excited about it yeah exactly and so how is that Kyle how’s that being received do you feel like in that Community because it is it is an inpatient treatment it’s not ex it is extended care in a way but it’s it’s structured sober living and how is that new energy being received um I mean it’s incredible yeah and you can see that because the more and more places that are opening up are starting to follow that structure right like I think gone are the times of just the traditional 12-step based programs again it’s it’s very evident as new places open up that that’s not what they’re geared towards which again the ones that exist that are already out there are crushing it they’re killing it right that’s their space and if we need to refer outwards we do um but I can’t tell you the amount of guys that come into our houses and I know he can attest to this who are like dude I’ve tried everything like I’ve been to however many different 12-step programs it might be a different program or a different house but it’s the same structure right um we have guys come up to us all the time they’re just really finding the passion that they want to find yeah in recovery because we’re allowing them to find it on their own right I’m not sitting there telling them you need to do a b c and d to stay sober it’s like hey these are the things we offer let’s figure out which ones you like right and then structure that around you and then allow them to to build off of that yeah and really make the decision for themselves I tell every guy that calls me on the phone um you know I want you coming in working a program of recovery because you want to right not because you’re being told to yeah and in doing so we’re creating a space where guys are making the decisions for themselves and we don’t have to you know hold their hand through it or make sure that they’re doing yeah specific things yeah it’s so cool that you all are willing to be like Curious with somebody and sit with them and it’s actually much different than what people would believe it’s actually the much easier approach to be punitive in hand-holding and kind of parenting over the process can be really really difficult yeah Although our field had really called for that style for a plethora of years coming off the backs in 1935 it was just a much different generational perspective and I think in the last handful of years we’ve really been able to shift that model and it’s so cool to hear that you guys are doing it in your level of care and people are seeing it I mean that’s amazing it’s amazing what have you seen over at Elevate as far as because we were talking before the show and um you know you talked you know very candidly about not how you were opposed to 12 steps but why you made a decision to not engage in that path totally I mean what I’ve seen um really it comes down to obviously I mean Johann hari’s rat park right you’re talking about connection connections everything so how can we encourage people to commune more and connect more on a real personal Humane level and so that’s what we’ve really tried to do is just develop a culture that does that and so including the the likes and the hobbies and the interests and the passions and the um the fun part of life around recovery and then include everybody and say hey look you don’t have to come to our Friday Saturday or Sunday workouts in the gym you can go to the climbing gym you can go on the hike so you can go climb mountains you can go biking you can do fishing whatever it is right and it’s it’s finding Community yeah and so for me it was like the all Pathways approach was like it doesn’t have to be this black or white thing it can be open-ended to whatever you want it to be as long as you’re developing those the the skill sets and the tools that are going to get you to where you need to go or where you want to go yeah that’s really the most important thing and so like those values and like the behaviors and the the foundational principles of like living a lifestyle of recovery are the things that are core to what we’re doing but all the other stuff is just like that’s the fun yeah so like how can we include more fun into recovery excuse me into recovery and um yeah just just let people choose their own path man yeah and that’s what’s been sucked out of the room of the church basement yeah right exactly unfortunately and I listen I used to go I great humans yeah great yeah sure that I owe a a vast majority of my recovery too but I think today um we want to ensure that everybody gets to see themselves under our big tent yeah you know and um I want everybody to feel a part of and what you guys do so well um whether seeing it or not is you allow the traumatized individual who’s already hyper Vigilant to maybe settle and get safe in their home and they’re going to be living with you for months and that was something that was really important to me back in Peaks when people lived for a long time was to know that they’re cared for and that they have a home and you guys do that really really well which I think is um pushing up against the status quo of the industry which I think is really really important so I appreciate that totally I think you said something important though just as far you know speaking on like different Generations everything should evolve yeah right like I understand the saying like if it’s not broke don’t fix it right right but if there’s new ways to do something that might be better or open the possibility to to new people yeah why not try right like isn’t that what we should be doing as a society anyway it’s just continuing to evolve and grow and change things yeah um but yeah he knocked out of the park connection Community yeah fun let’s just enjoy our lives right yeah like let’s not be bogged down by like you need to do these things every single day in or blah blah right like right like we get to yeah we get to yeah that would argue that’s why you guys and I have no idea what your story looked like but I would argue that’s why you struggled in those first few places was because you come in it’s a box over your head you can’t see yourself in it you’re like I’m an athlete I like to do fun stuff and move around and move my body they’re like sit in the chair every day you know it’s just I gotta go right yeah you know so it makes a lot of sense I find myself often times for clients and folks that have called Peaks home I find myself apologizing for the industry in a way because there has been such a dramatic overhaul with the way that we approach people um so I I say a lot of that probably has to do more with the industry and trying to figure its way out totally than anything else yeah and I think that’s part of like redefining and changing that stigma right because there is that stigma attached to it even with people within the industry and so it’s like how are we refining how are we constantly changing this and improving this and so totally agree with you on that yeah yeah and I love that we can sit here too as providers and and looking for opportunities for growth yeah I mean I was in group this morning and this young man shared with me and he said man this place is absolutely amazing we’ve got a couple staff members out with covet and so the the transition from group to group has been a little bit off and he’s like man everything’s nice but if I don’t want to have to share my timeline today again I’m like fair enough you know I can hear that and what I hear is hey the next time we have this up with this covid situation which we will walk through and we walk through it a plethora of times we can get a little bit more Curious on how to make sure that that makes sense for everybody totally you know um so I I think we if when we come into this with a bit of humility we have the opportunity to exercise our greatness yeah which is really really cool and that the other question I wanted to move into and you guys kind of answered it a little bit is um what’s missing today from what you all see from the level of care of which you operate out of and what are you guys doing to change that even though you probably answered a portion of that already do you want to start or you want me to start um I mean whoever starts is going to answer it you you go and I’ll piggyback off you all right so what I see is we talk about community and connection and we talk about um there’s this I mean it’s not anything new but peer coaching yeah right and connect being able to connect with somebody um there’s a so much dysregulation in that you know part of the industry and so for me personally what we’re doing um and what we started over at True North so I opened up an outpatient treatment center called true north Recovery Services and we’re really focusing on addressing compliance continuing education progression supervision not just like you know there’s some of these organizations who just like Bill and like do this stuff and it’s like what are we doing what are we doing right yeah so it’s like how can we improve outcomes and how can we measure this stuff and how can we really connect with people on a deeper level because it’s like there’s that whole clinical aspect right but then like the personal aspect like how can we really start to like track and measure this stuff so that it’s beneficial for all parties so that a high tide raises All Ships yeah um you know and so for me that’s kind of where I’m at is like what can we do as an organization that can help raise the standard that I can say like no like we’re not gonna We’re not gonna play this game we’re not going to do this like this is [ __ ] and ultimately at the end of the day it’s only going to hurt us and the clients because everybody gets lumped in right yeah and so um for me that’s I think the biggest the biggest thing that we’re seeing and the biggest thing that I’m really focusing on right now is like how can we help improve the industry in the sense because like lived experience is important and people resonate with that and connect and so they want to hear our stories all of us you know what I mean but at the same time there has to be some clear-cut regulation and rules and and a standard that’s set higher so we can improve outcomes yeah especially at that level yeah totally here’s it’s so true you kind of feel the same way yeah I mean I yeah I’m right on board with that um obviously with the peer services that we’ve been rolling out and have been doing uh this is where like the collaborative part comes in really well because we can follow the standards of what True North is doing um to make sure that we’re following the correct guidelines because again like as treatment has always been it’s kind of like the wild west right there’s a lot of gray areas out there and people can kind of pick and choose and abuse a lot of things um and it’s great to be you know partnered with individuals who are trying to do things correctly yeah you know they have the the right kind of morals and ethics um and do so like follow that path um peer Services is huge right now yeah I think there’s a lot to be said about that there’s a reason why you know and let’s let’s talk about AAA yeah isn’t a sponsor right just another peer right yeah like we’re walking that we’ve all been through that um so it’s incredibly beneficial but I also think uh something that that’s cool is the whole stigma between like I feel like there’s a lot of sober livings back in the day when there was like a relapse or something yeah it was very much just like all right yeah why right why are we punishing that individual exactly they need help yeah and what’s going to best suit their needs right if that means giving them another opportunity within the house then they didn’t cause harm anywhere they didn’t put others at Danger let’s kill them with kindness yeah right like let’s come from a place of compassion and like just trying to change the structure of of our sober livings and make sure that we’re trying to treat each individual as best as possible and not kind of again lump them into this like oh you relapse you’re gone you did this you’re going like just trying to help them in a better way that in the past maybe wasn’t dealt with correctly sure or didn’t feel like it was available right for you guys you know because of the pressure of the industry right you guys bring up just some tremendous points like if you guys as you guys continue to develop and measure outcomes at that level of care outpatient and or structured sober living I mean that Buck’s the status quo so hard totally something at Peaks that we’ve engaged with over the last handful of years is really having a third party come in and say hey this is what it is right and not only doing that being transparent to the consumer and being one of only I think 10 or 20 treatment programs out there who’s not a non-profit who posts that stuff online all right we want people to see we want people to get answers honesty the same thing that we’re trying to practice you know with ourselves and encourage our members to do yeah honesty and transparency that’s so important yeah that’s awesome yeah and I love what you said to Kyle about this opportunity we have much different than the old culture and shoot up we’re part of it at Peaks like this is unsafe you got to go you know where do you want to go um and now we have this opportunity and I was in when it first started a few years back I was like I don’t know about this but you’ll watch somebody who uses a coping mechanism because they’re scared or they’re anxious or they’re depressed and they know they probably made a mistake and they maybe should have checked in and done this thing when you watch them not get their Primal needs ripped from them yeah and you watch them be loved on I think you guys have seen this and you watch them resettle I mean we have folks in long-term recovery who are great examples of that and I think you all can attest to that as well so I really appreciate you bringing that up because it doesn’t it’s not black and white on that side of things we can really get curious and spend some time it’s a learning experience let them learn the better way to handle it yeah let us teach them yeah for sure I love that stuff well I got one more question all right and since I was just on their talk show and they asked me a really cool question right at the end I got a really cool question for you all and the question they asked me if I could be any player on a football team who would I be and why right right yeah and I said I’d be a cheerleader I love it yeah which was great that’s perfect I was gonna say I’m gonna be a linebacker
if you could be any superhero who would it be and why we’ll start with Kyle that’s easy Spiderman okay Spider-Man because if you if you look at where he came from right like he is like literally your average kid right like nothing special about him he’s you know he might be a bit of a smart ass or something but um his intentions and where he comes from from like a family perspective because of what he’s lost
he wants to do good by his family from the people who had hurt him and he really has that perfect like uh superhero origin story and guess what he’s still a kid and he’s trying to live his life he’s trying to have fun he’s trying to navigate you know the next right thing and I kind of feel the same way especially with building and growing a business like I’m still trying to learn I’m still trying to figure things out right but like I think I share a common a common purpose or a common goal with him is just to help others yeah that’s probably better than my answer so let’s go awesome man yeah I like Spider-Man too I didn’t know I liked him that much I like Spider-Man too and that’s who first came to mind so I can’t say Spider-Man Spider-Man and then I was like because it comes down to like I was like Captain America is pretty tight yeah yeah but I was like Batman is more like up my alley you know kind of like same sort of concept even though he you know well so I’ve been thinking about the the first movie where his parents get killed at the theater right am I remembering that right um I’m not a big superhero guy but if I you know obviously from struggle comes like resilience and uh that’s why I love the concept of the Phoenix right and then you rise out of the ashes um so I’d probably say like Batman yeah and he’s he’s awesome and he’s dope and he has all kinds of like cool gadgets yeah he’s got the whip I swear I saw I don’t know if it was from the first Batman or the second one or whatever it was but the Batman mobile was actually for sale at some auction for just something you gonna pick it up or what no no I’m thinking about Subaru nice which one which which are you gonna get I have no idea yeah I don’t have to get my I release cars so I haven’t told that crash tracks are pretty nice yeah get like a cross track whatever the ones that have the off-road packages because I’m telling you right now there is Subarus higher up on the trailhead than I can oh yeah totally they’ll go anywhere it’s insane and you’ll see like lifted jeeps like how did this thing get up here what a superhero would you be that’s a good question um I never even thought about it for myself um
it’s kind of a tough question it’s a really tough question
I love like Marvel and superheroes yeah yeah that’s right in my alley
I think I would have to go with Superman okay and here’s the reason it has no really heartfelt meaning like you guys have but when I got into recovery in 2008 I showed up and I was just in a tough shape I had two tattoos I had one you know the prototypical armband that you got at 15 that you know doesn’t quite you know we have a tattoo artist in our program I was sharing this morning she’s like I’m like yeah it’s everything they joke about and then I had this really special one right here and it was a Superman logo nice but even better it had a little bit of tribal coming off of it you know so that’s why I’d have to go with the Superman thing and I remember listening to this yeah the three of your viewers are gonna love this I remember when the 50 Cent album came out and he said Isaiah walk around like I got an s on my chest yeah you’re like that’s me that’s me yeah 50. I can write but I can relate to the struggle a lot like you guys and I can relate um in our opportunity in our effort to rejoice in recovery and be bright lights for individuals who can’t see it in their lives and having you guys on the show today was a tremendous opportunity for me for the Peaks team to have alumni on to have Bryce on you guys are doing amazing things in the community I really appreciate your time today looking forward to connecting down the line maybe after we get the facility built we’ll be sending out a huge alumni thing we’re doing a recovery concert on site for the ribbon cutting so we’d love to get sofferson’s Booth up there elevated up there we’re going to have sober AF up there we have a few bands playing we’re gonna be cutting the ribbon just letting people know that there’s a home here in Colorado and you can see yourself inside of it so thank you guys thank you thank you we really appreciate it we love what you got going on and we are I know I can speak for myself but I can also speak for car because we’ve talked about it but like we aspire to uh continually make progress and follow in your footsteps because you’re just out here crushing it and saving lives and changing lives and creating such an impact and so we really look up to you and we appreciate you awesome I really appreciate that you guys it’s just been a pleasure having you guys on and until next time yeah man check us out on your podcast Instagram Facebook um Apple music Spotify Spotify YouTube before the show check us out on there until next time peace thank you