Episode 81

welcome back to another special episode of Finding Peaks I am your hostess with the mostest Brandon Burns chief executive officer for Peaks recovery centers bringing it live at five so to speak I think that’s what the kids say in the cliche world it’s not five anywhere during this time but just to have fun with you guys grab your popcorn and your soda especially you the family systems out there because we got a very special guest on today uh but before we introduce our guests as always co-host here today Clinton Nicholson LPC Lac all the clinical things as the kids know back at home uh in that regard and then we’re joined today by uh Ryan Roy with crisis case management president I should say as a title in that regard welcome to the show sir so grateful to have you and thanks for being with us just to kick start this of course you know we met you just a short month ago or so and um our business development rep apparently was dropping her kid off at a Kung Fu class or something and then saw your guys assign and here we are today talking on an episode and you know just greatly inspired by what we’ve been able to learn from you guys and what you’re doing out there not just in the communities around the United States but globally and uh so you know to kick this off let’s let everybody know at home kind of um you know who you are how you got to you know crisis case management and you know the philosophy behind the company that you work for federal health consultants which is just a bunch of fancy words for saying that we work within the behavioral health space uh we do a tremendous amount of really heavy and really complex psychiatric work crisis work uh High Acuity complex family systems High death risk legal issues hospitals hospitalizations profound mood and thought disorders substance abuse issues and that’s really the the start or some of the the places that we start working with what we think is the most significant player in all of this work which is the family system something that you mentioned before and that work continues from a institutional standpoint and from our team or teams um well into recovery or Wellness as we continue to manage the the Continuum of Care from what we like to call pre-contemplation where a family system or a spouse or a child or a business partner is contemplative about change or contemplative about systemic change guiding them from pre-contemplation through an intervention through treatment placements reintegration back into the household the business their life and well into um their recovery or wellness and whatever that will look like what that means from this looking out is we have a team of about 80 across the country Boston New York Miami and here in Los Angeles we work nationally and globally which means unlike a therapist or a psychiatrist we go to the work um if it’s in a jail cell in Boise if it’s in that hotel suite in Mexico City if it’s on someone’s front lawn in Philadelphia that’s where the work is that’s where we go and that’s where we our teams start to attach themselves to that family system and to the work and a lot of times that is about containment stabilization diagnostic therapization um and really continued um kind of a series of micro interventions through a variety of different inflection points whether it’s as simple as you know letting a mom know that it’s okay if you don’t um respond immediately to a text message it’s okay if you shut your phone off for the night it’s okay if you don’t fire off another 500 when your son or daughter is bullying you or gaslighting you um and and really again like focusing on the family around where the fire is or where the fire may be I think that’s a good kind of thematic look at who we are and what we do yeah absolutely so and I appreciate that it I mean it sounds your crisis case management I think it’s informed by everything you just stated that the families are generally uh calling you guys in a moment of Crisis or with a history of Crisis uh within their family systems and you know for any of the you know families out there that are going through crisis is currently uh within their lives whether they’re going to reach out to you know your firm tomorrow or to a place like you know Peaks recovery centers what is often time the first thing you’re trying to negotiate with a family system because they’re desperate for Hope and change and these sort of things but you know before we can get from point A to the end of a potential you know Journey whether that’s recovery oriented or otherwise that’s going to come with uh some steps in between it so kind of what is that first approach with family systems to you know maybe calm that noise I mean I heard some of it certainly through hey we’re just going to put down the phone for the night we’re not going to send that 500 give yourself some Grace and love as a family system you’re doing the best you can but you know without me you know kind of maybe stealing the show here what is what is that kind of initial energy you’re trying to provide back to the family system but we we really get calls at two different places along the Continuum of Care one is from a case management standpoint when someone a loved one is further along they may be about to discharge from residential something may have blown up um not from a a profound crisis standpoint something may have blown up along the way with their their PHP or their living environment and it’s not necessarily like rush them to a hospital or rush them back to residential but to get in to stabilize that’s really about half of our phone calls from discharge planners or therapists that want our help in integrating with a treatment plan and then help like actualizing a treatment plan post discharge that’s about half of our book of business from a crisis standpoint um it’s why my head was kind of bobbling when you were when you were forming that question it really is all shapes and sizes right okay um I’m actually shocked sometimes that any family system anywhere um that one person within it has the wherewithal and awareness to raise their hand and ask for help you know especially with an indictment or a judgment of family systems with the corrosiveness um and a lot of times systemic and generational trauma um that that family system has that they’re capable not not from us from anybody that they’re capable of asking for help at all um the one word that comes to mind isn’t necessarily an answer to your question but I think it’s the thing that they respond to the most is Authority if if we can’t in if we can’t connect with them uh with a sense of authority um then there’s really no reason for them to hire us what they’re looking for um I think whether they know it or not is someone to step into the middle of the fire with them take a deep breath not be emotionally attached like they are they have a loved one in crisis they’re in it they’ve been in it for months or years or decades their ability to see what we see from a professional non-emotional investment standpoint is just different and to really get in there with a plan and a sense of authority and collaboration honor where they’re all at but say the next healthiest best step is this let’s do that and then once that kind of rubber hits the road even pre-admission or pre-engagement sometimes unbeknownst to them because they’ve been in crisis living for so long that’s all they’ve done I think that can give them a sense of relief um and that may be the unanswered question they were looking for to step back for a second we get a lot of calls from families that have been through 10 15 treatment environments they’ve had their pockets picked they’ve been misdiagnosed they are very Savvy in terms of like um residential facilities the lingo the speak all of it and they’re really emotionally and financially and physically exhausted they most likely have a loved one from a mood or thought disorder standpoint that will always need some kind of care um and they’re really just asking for help and I think our not that we have a magic wand or a special sauce we do not but I our collaboration and our industry knowledge we’ve been doing this for a long time we have a big huge team with massive rolodexes our ability to kind of roll up our sleeves and get into the conspiracy with them and hold their hand and walk them out of it without false promises I think that’s another um I think thing that sets us apart or makes me proud of of how we present ourselves every day yeah I mean I think that that image of um walking into the fire with the family is really powerful because that’s really what you’re describing you guys are actually racing towards the fire rather than running away from it and all of those those sort of components that you described earlier on like uh clients and patients with uh High psychosis High death risk you know all of these what the most treatment facilities in the industry really look at is liability really are what you guys race towards and that’s a pretty powerful um Mission as a company and um yeah I’m just really curious like how do you maintain that energy because I I think that there are so many that just when I think about that from a longevity standpoint I just I can see the emotional uh kind of wear and tear that that might that that might create so I’m just curious about what that looks like for you guys well I I know personally it’s my my recovery therapy my dog my um really honoring kind of the the jackass child in me um and that’s that’s me personally sure professionally you know this isn’t camp this isn’t rehearsal we’re we’re doing this we’re running a business and these things I’m talking about are really happening right and we we got sometimes we gotta go the first name in our business is Crisis for a reason the phone calls that we get we get for a reason you know a lot of days we’re going to have people on planes 20 minutes ago I I think two things one we’re so team oriented internally we’re never asking one individual to carry everything because they’ve got so much collaboration and support whether it’s booking planes or you know getting vobs running a facility or looking around the corner of this problem or this problem or someone’s working with an overwhelming family I just I can’t deal with the mom right now we can bring another team member in to integrate immediately so that individual and their skill set can be honored with that part of the job we’re really really adapted doing that and I think that skill for us institutionally has come out of necessity um not necessarily virtue um and also like we were talking about before the zoom you know we’re constantly paying for team members of to go to on-site to do intensives um to do trainings they want to do we have a wonderful director of case management who was one of our most senior case managers and now she’s she’s essentially our internal um uh I’m gonna say this um Colonel like coaches coach so she’s the one that really day to day is monitoring is this team working well together um is that person getting triggered or going through cross transference with a client or with a family member or with a therapist at a facility how can we best support that uh how do we how can we constantly remind ourselves that we don’t know what we don’t know which is so important to our business we’re not making widgets people die right we have to like absolutely Frosty and fresh and if we get jaded and cynical that’s a real problem for us obviously culturally but as a business that’s a real problem as well absolutely yeah I appreciate the question Clinton and then as you know as well too Ryan I I’m curious about you know you you find a place maybe you didn’t an indeed you know job application or something that brought you on board with you know crisis case management at uh in the first place however that path you know came to be you step into a center that’s motivated to help family systems in a world I mean we know the history and we’ve talked about a lot here in uh you know Finding Peaks episodes the you know uh corruption and the the decisiveness divisiveness and all of these features of you know we use the language early I’ll just keep it going the rehab industrial complex you know here in the United States of America and I imagine coming onto the role there’s a great deal of Hope and passion around what you’re doing at the same time there’s probably some immediate experiences that you’ve learned of like what is going on with either you know inpatient residential programs or outpatient or whatever it was that you were trying to case remember you know case manage family members too and I’m just curious if you can walk us through kind of what it was like to walk into the environment with the passion to help the need that’s out there but then also to get exposed to kind of the sickness of the Behavioral Health Care industry
the for me they’re not connected um I I grew up in downtown Boston um I went to grammar school with our founder um we both lost Brothers to untreated alcoholism my brother Duncan died of a heroin overdose in a hotel room in Bangkok in 1996 um and Mike’s older brother and my middle brother we all went to the same Grammar School um I I was a screenwriter in Hollywood um I was on a fishing trip in Miami like eight and a half years ago I stayed behind for a couple days to hang out with Mike we were having coffee and I um I had a really good screenwriting run and then two years of kind of hell alone chain smoking in a studio apartment and I just I just blurted out to Mike I’m like I have no idea what you do but if you ever need any help I’d love to help and I started out with CCM doing a very little amount of marketing work and it just kind of exploded into this thing and in the last eight years the company has grown from this to this and and here I am um it became and this is I’m so grateful for this um it’s become one of the most significant happy accidents of my life I mean I come from the families that we work with um yes this is a job yes it’s grueling yes it’s emotionally it’s raining we really do help people you know like for real and it’s incredibly rewarding uh whether it’s team members or clients or for their collaboration with facilities it’s genuine and it’s real and it’s in real time and it’s no joke and I love it um to your question we’re we’re lucky um in a couple of aspects one we’re primarily cash pay um we we are insurance won’t go near us so are the clientele that we deal with and also the facilities that we deal with are primarily cash pay and because you know probably 80 percent of our clients are primary mental health and maybe a little bit of substance abuse but it’s primary mental health the pool of facilities we’re dealing with that have the clinical chops to deal with these presentations is a lot smaller than just like a general dual environment um that said I mean there are shady people around every corner in this business I don’t care what where you’re living um and yeah we get we and I get exposed to it all the time um another lucky thing or kind of built-in cap for us is we don’t do any PPC or PR per se which means that all of our business comes from referrals from past clients from facilities from attorneys um and we honor that with everything because that’s what keeps our lights on and we understand that they’re calling our name and when we refer a family to a facility we’re putting our name behind that that’s our business and I think we protect that with so much from top to bottom that that kind of keeps the shadier part uh that keeps us away from the shadier parts of our business of our industry
yeah I appreciate I appreciate the insights uh there as well you know I asked out of curiosity because you know in the first experience of meeting you at uh especially with such a Powerhouse case management program that you’re running you know I felt like in a way you know it’s part of your role to right-size the individual that’s in front of you and you know in that way I I you know I felt like we the first time we met we were really kind of going back and forth to ensure that yeah this is going to be a valuable potential uh referral partnership down the road or it’s not going to be uh and so out of that experience uh that’s where the question of curiosity came from and grateful for you sharing that with uh with everybody at home some type of mine Clinton yeah I’m just I’m curious so what what do you guys really look for in a facility I mean especially with Mental Health primary being the a large percentage of your patient population I mean that is that is a pretty small pool I don’t see people necessarily realize that there isn’t uh there aren’t a whole lot of options out there so I am curious sort of what you guys look for and what makes a treatment center sort of um really a match for you and and the clients that you serve I mean the the first word that comes to mind uh is collaboration you know and and that’s for that’s for two reasons one is for our clients right is when we show up at someone’s door with a client um you know what we’re showing up with everything that we know and everything that we don’t know um and some goals um and a desire to partner with something that we’re not right we’re not a treatment facility we’re not a PHP we’re not an IOP we do have licensed clinicians on our team we’re not assessing people we’re not doing Diagnostics what we need for our clients is the most appropriate collaborative partner at that point through the Continuum of Care right so if there’s two identical facilities with identical staff and one is a closed off Antiquated it’s our way only facility and the other one is is open to one plus one equals three collaboration and keeping in mind that we’re not trying to do your clinical director’s job for you we just want to honor the fact that that’s our client and this is a part of the Continuum of Care and our desire from a business standpoint is to work with that family for months and months and years and years because the recovery process and the Continuing Care process it’s not 30 days an hour it this is a process from brain restoration standpoint from a family system standpoint um I think that would be the most important word is collaboration yeah that’s I think that’s great you know I think we use this term interdisciplinary a lot of times and typically it’s referring to sort of like the the inner workings of an actual organization but this idea of interdisciplinary being across companies across um this collaboration expands Way Beyond just what’s going on within an actual facility and really it it starts to connect uh larger parts of the community because what you guys have is this you you specialize in this this is something I mean case management is so under um underappreciated in so many ways because this this is the long game you know that’s what you guys are really playing the long game and the way that you guys are engaging with the family you’re playing the long and the Deep game at that point you know that’s a that’s a pretty um that’s an embedded model so I think it’s great and I love this idea of just like really expanding what it means to be in a really interdisciplinary and collaborative relationship between organizations yeah I mean we even today we have three or four case managers that are in clinical meetings at facilities with their clinicians you know not to look over not to look over their shoulder but to to to hear and listen and report back and to add different perspectives from the family or the historical information or when that happened on Tuesday after group she lit up the boyfriend like this and then this happened and this happened to truly collaborate with them and and both ways absolutely yeah that’s great I get goosebumps that’s just the clinic clinical nerd in me sorry yeah it makes me want to take a nap so we
yeah so it and and from my you know the one of the things we talk about at uh Peaks Recovery Center is uh a lot of the times or more more so as of recent right is you know we’re resourced uh primarily through Insurance dollars as a not a network provider PPO plans and so forth and those those resources namely the reimbursements come in and you know we’ve come up or learned new language for our organization that you know we have this business thing that is Peaks recovery centers and then we also have this community thing and with only so many resources uh we can only contribute to the communities you know in so many efforts one of those most important things of course is family systems uh you know a second piece from there can be our peer recovery coach model a third piece could be case management but when when your resources are only so much you know in an organization that’s dedicated to the inpatient sort of model at the end of the day these resources you know generally are going to suffer in that way you know from a community standpoint and and I really see your services uh in this sort of dichotomous sense as really Community Based and fundamentally based in that regard to be able to point at the institutions that are appropriate for care and to have those private paid dollars and resources come in to actually give the family all of the community resources that are potentially in front of them is pretty powerful so you know with that being a Community Driven organization you know what are the what are the challenges uh for you guys as an organization you know here at Peaks our challenges are inserting those communal aspects but being a community-based model you know some what are some of the challenges maybe that family systems are calling on you guys uh to support them with where your services may you know maybe start to experience some of the challenges like we do on that Community side of things such a good question you know and it’s families aren’t a monolith right it’s all anecdotal um right yeah I mean I think I would wish in some cases that you know that one more family member or they’re I’m not even talking about money um or there could be one more month you know for a light to go off in one more family member um to not for us but to see that there’s another way right and whatever that way may be um you know again like I I come from these families that we work with and if I could wave a magic wand I I think it would be more Global psycho education you know um and you know we talk about this all the time like how can we get this whole family to do to start doing some real family work you know and then what comes out of that individually and how will that start to trickle down into their own children their own relationships around holding the door open for someone at 7-Eleven all of it and then looping back to selfishly from the care of the IP standpoint you know whatever they are in the Continuum of Care there’s so much focus on that fire and putting that fire out and what happens next how can the simultaneous care individually and collectively of the family system start to hold the person in crisis as everyone is evolving I mean I I at the end of all admissions calls um I try to remind people of two things you know one is that self-care is so critically important right now for a number of reasons because of the crisis that you’re living in and also you starting to model that behavior for loved ones a child a spouse a parent whatever it’s incredibly important right um I I don’t know I mean we help some people but then you get a phone call and you’re like wait a second this is one of like 700 000 families that are presenting exactly like this and I think that that feels daunting sometimes they’re just I mean you guys should have 1.2 million beds right yeah yeah absolutely yeah yes working it works daunting yeah working on operationally yeah we’re working on scaling it uh certainly at this time Goosebumps are gone [Laughter] are absolutely gone now so yeah when uh you know when I when I think of concepts of self-care uh you know one of the things we talk about a lot are boundaries and on on finding Peaks and certainly in Peaks recovery centers and no doubt in crisis case management uh and and through that systems and and you know families come to me like oh I held a boundary with the client you know with my loved one Brandon but it didn’t work and it’s like well describe to me that boundary and then they describe it and it’s generally like a structural thing for them right I’m gonna put a wall here I’m gonna put a curb here stop the behavior by moving these sort of you know metaphorical structures around and it’s uh it’s missing the Target in that regard and but it feels like there’s a real power and in essence once families obtain what a true boundary is and and you know and in that regard self-care comes out of boundaries in a variety of different things but I’m curious you know from you know CCM through your own lens in that regard you know how you would uh help families to identify what boundaries are so maybe they can hear it from not from because we keep talking about it finding Peaks maybe they’re like shut up yeah shut up you guys you keep talking maybe through a new lens we can bring in another you know vision for boundaries and how families can really start to mold that into their own lives who might be watching this with us today
um good question I I think especially through crisis it is such a um it’s such a foreign concept to them in practicality that it becomes one of the series of micro interventions and it’s really about hand-holding them even into the realm of holding a real boundary right otherwise it’s all theoretical and also from a strategic standpoint and from an intervention standpoint we really need them to hold that boundary you know from a compliance standpoint when we talk about emotional leverage financial leverage custodial legal leverage when we’re talking about trying to contain someone we we need that coalescence in those boundaries it I think it becomes a little bit easier anecdotally within that to say Dad you need to turn the money off right now otherwise this is going to happen and it’s not necessarily Landing with them as a parent or as a human being it’s Landing with them as a participant in this conspiracy to get from point A to point B um right I would go to something a mom told me like nine months ago she was talking about holding a boundary with her son um it dysregulated him it pissed him off and she smiled and said this doesn’t feel good right and her son is like no Mom it hurts you know I can’t believe you’re doing this to me and she said sweetie this is what it feels like when someone cares for you and from a mother to a son that’s not my line it was a mom that told me that I think that’s everything yeah and I think it’s it’s a sophisticated internal negotiation for individuals what’s best for me for self-care and what what am I willing to do up to a certain line and then how will that be expressed to my loved one and then the potential consequences of that from just from a straight Al-Anon standpoint if they’re none of my business they’re really none of my business you know um I I don’t know if there’s a simple straightforward answer to that question a lot of it is contextual for us at least um based on where we’re catching them you know absolutely yeah I think there’s really important language you know that you that you shared in there this is what it is like to be loved to be cared for sometimes to be loved and to be cared for it is against the grain of what our expectations are as individuals and additionally to that uh to you know to to nurture that you know the families get that input back oh you’re screwing me over or it’s you’re you’re doing this and you’re affecting my life and how dare you and that sort of thing and you know from that shame standpoint we don’t receive that as uh you know I did a bad thing but I’m a bad person right and because we’re really the whole time engaged relationally with our loved one regardless of their struggles and so it’s really difficult to totally it sounds like in all of our experiences from family systems to hear that they’re just frustrated by the love and care that they’re receiving not that you as an individual are a bad person in this moment and you know sorting out that shame and allowing parents to experience you know kind of like what we do collectively each and every day at peace and certainly at CCM we experienced a lot of negative energy coming our way and and rightfully so right we’re treating individuals who are suffering in the world family systems that are tired tuckered out financially strained all of those sort of things so of course you know they’re going to have an emotional energy to give us you know but we learn as professionals and in time not only through self-care and so forth to just create that emotional distance to know they’re not necessarily yelling at us they’re just expressing frustrations and out of that you know we’re not you know bad practitioners at the end of the day and um so those insights into family systems and as much as we can continue to address and readdress boundaries as a concept I think you know nationally it becomes an easier conversation and something that you know they can better understand and uh with that you know kind of a challenge and a question is so much of CCM and rightfully so is focused on the family system you know how often are you guys you know this is going to be an anecdotal sort of on the side of CCM running into situations in which the family calls you hey here’s we’ll pay for Johnny to go from point A to point B we’ll do everything but we don’t want to participate in this because I think we all collectively know how powerful from a Community Asset the family system is but sometimes you just get disinterested family systems they want the the sort of cure without the involvement and how do you walk family systems through that energy they might be giving you in that way if if that if that was presented to us and there was a non-compliant IP um and there was no uh apparent leverage um or even opportunities to develop a Therapeutic Alliance with them to try to nudge them towards wellness and whatever that may be um we we probably wouldn’t take their money wow
that’s a big say yeah absolutely yeah yeah I mean because we’re we’re not we’re not in the check cashing business and if there’s no opportunity and we would look for it um if there’s no opportunity to influence change what are we going to do I mean absolutely yeah I think that’s just a testament to how much you guys really believe in this uh this sort of systems kind of uh level of of care and what that means for wellness and just long-term sustainable recovery so no that’s a great answer absolutely yeah and it’s a message I think you know uh wholeheartedly our industry just needs to hear at times that it’s that you know I I maybe we talked about this the first time Ryan when we were on the first call together but you know every Treatment Center’s website says dual diagnosis and it’s just not the case that that’s you know true at the end of the day and um I get it we’re businesses we have to Market we have to advertise we have to have patience to stay alive as a program it’s one of those uh frustrating balances that exist Within These business structures you know as you said right we’re not selling Snickers bars or these Commodities over here there’s a patient live and family system that’s in Jeopardy here and and to the very literal sense May ultimately die in the process if they don’t achieve their goals and to run into systems that are oriented to no we’ll just take you and you got a heartbeat in an insurance card or you know private pay rates um has come at a significant cost for our industry and it’s been so disingenuous and it’s also also probably how you’ve arrived at certainly in your experiences those frustrated family systems 14 15 treatment centers later in that regard so um so I think that’s right size and I think that’s balanced and I really do appreciate you having that mentality to know what distance uh you guys can actually take a family system in that regard because you have we’re not we’re not unaware of our success either and we do a lot for a number of different reasons to honor that you know we scholarship people and we will bend over backwards to say Yes um you know even if it’s Net Zero for us and we could pay a team member to go do whatever you know will help and because we um you know we place a lot of cash pay clients every year we have a certain gravitas within our industry and if you know we got to go try to help someone get a scholarship to try to help save someone we will go ahead and do that like this is this is what we do you know
yeah you know I’m curious you know at I I think that’s at some point a bridge you have to cross in healthcare right is you’re gonna you you have you know customers who can pay for the service and you have customers who can’t and from a community level it’s important to invest in your community you know corporate responsibility you know uh uh business responsibilities within the community in that regard and so it makes sense you know that you would um nurture you know scholarship opportunities on behalf of individuals but again every company is you know resourced in a way that can always provide the opportunities and just curious from like uh just a systems and team standpoint you know how you guys nurture and I guess this is more for just you know the business environments out there from a company that’s really passionate about Desiring to help people uh you know it’s the reality for Peaks recovery centers it’s the reality for addiction treatment centers down the street from us psych wards and so forth you know we just don’t always have the resources to help you know people and I’m just curious as a company culture how you guys you know continue you forward with the mission and vision while also appreciating that as a real reality of our of our business models I mean I don’t want to get political but in a perfect world exist and there’d be incredibly available Healthcare hanging from every tree on the corner that’s the reality right right we’re expensive we’re a private pay not everyone has post-tax dollars just laying around to have a consultancy help them through crisis and appropriate placement and collaboration so things get done and long before we understand that um do we have to say no to some people because of finances sometimes yes do we say yes to people because of finances sometimes a lower level of finances of course we do um and I think we talked about this on our zoom and I think this is a part of how we kind of pay it forward or backwards um is about 70 of our inbound calls 7 out of 10 is non-revenue producing it’s about helping other players in our industry redirecting them you know adding because we’ve that so many providers and facilities and hospitals it constantly making sure that the right person or family is connected to the right provider at the right time seven out of ten of our calls are dedicated to that it’s a part of how we Market but I think it’s also a part of how we do what we can do to keep good healthy Integrity driven blood moving through our industry
appreciate that anything top of Mind Clinton no I mean I just uh I I think uh as this conversation has sort of evolved I’m just really grateful for um being able to talk about this part of the Continuum of Care because I think it just isn’t usually discussed right like it’s but this is actually part of the intervention like this you guys taught you were talking about these micro interventions and I just think that’s such a wonderful concept and something that we don’t always pay attention to that it’s really the especially early on in this process it’s all of these little bits of help and support that you’re providing to both the patient and to the family that really starts to move like as you talked about from that pre-contemplation to the contemplations sort of aspects of of desire and willingness to get help and um but yeah I think that it’s it’s just this we’d never really talk about the sort of before you know like it’s always about the during and the after and so this I just really have been enjoying this conversation and talking about this level of of service as part of that Continuum I think it’s just a yeah so I’m I’m just sitting here being happy and enjoying to talk so yeah yeah I appreciate it you know and and Ryan on you know just a couple of follow-up questions and we’ll tie it out here but uh you know as I shared with you in our first uh you know conference call together our mission at Peaks is to save lives and what a challenge that is and what a challenge you probably experienced in uh under that that same title and then our vision is to you know disrupt an industry through quality of care you know here at Peaks we’re learning you know as as we’re learning how big the potential disruption is that it can exist in a curriculum it can it can exist in the Continuum of Care it can exist in we’re going to do the right thing and collect deductibles it can exist and we’re gonna advertise in an ethical sense of things it can exist in we’re going to nurture staff uh in an industry of of high burnout uh in that regard and so just giving out some of those examples of you know potential disruption they can be you know small medium large at the end of the day they can be incredibly huge um but if you could you know at this time Ryan and knowing what you know about you know the mental health Space Case Management you know crisis if you could do anything to disrupt it right now positively speaking of course you know what would that be and what would that look like stay away from insurance because that’s a whole other policy that’s fair that’s bad I I think it would be two things one I think it would be um lowering the barrier or eliminating or vaporizing the barrier between presentation and placement meaning um how an IP is presenting what those needs are and then what is the most appropriate placement you know I love Google but that is not a placement tool right um second would be if I could wave a magic wand it would be requiring family members to start their therapeutic work as their loved one is being admitted period um but we one of our most senior interventionists requires both Mom and Dad to have verifiable therapist appointments before she’ll intervene in a loved one I know there’s there’s some ngos or non-profits out there that do similar things I think the fear of uh most institutions most residential institutions is we can’t push the payer too far uh we don’t want to we don’t want to tear that admission uh but if if that if that if I could wave a magic wand that would 100 be it because it would benefit everybody
absolutely yeah yeah absolutely I mean and and in our experience certainly an invested family system is an Engaged family system and and out of that engagement what you get when you because it’s not linear right it’s it’s an up and down Journey for the patient and their struggles regardless of what that is and when those those ups and downs experiences comes a family that’s engaged and situated is more curious about what to do next and less frightened and panicked in that regard and so that’s an incredible value proposition and you know I think at the end of the day it’s small conversations like these that ultimately will hopefully lead families into okay when you make that phone call to CCM or to a Peaks Recovery Center is like I know from the beginning I got to get engaged in this so that this outcome can actually become a reality or if if it’s uh without the family system if it’s this far with the family system it only has to be this far you know when we can communicate healthy with each other in that way so um so yeah that’s the thing I wanted to you know just get at always curious about how people are thinking about disruption and what people are finding themselves frustrated with you know within our industry whatever that perspective may look like uh at the end of the day and so before I kind of take this out on behalf of the episode you know Ryan thanks again so much for being with us but hopefully you can just share a little bit about with the viewers about how to find you guys um you know a website Instagram maybe all the things you guys are doing out there uh let the family systems know at home how to reach out to you guys and find you in that way it crisiscm.com www.crisiscm.com
um everything is on there and I I really mean this like whether you’re gonna hire us or not um if you have questions about any part of anything we’ve talked about at all uh please call or email we are here to help that’s what we do um that’s what we pay our teams to do that’s why we’re doing what we do that’s what’s kept our lights on for 23 years um and that’s what’s I think created um a space in our business that I’m proud of um so check out the website text or call or drop us an email or whatever uh we’re here to help if we can I I appreciate it Ryan into the into the viewers out there as I take you out the first time I met Ryan the first time we collectively did as a as a treatment program in a center he said the exact same thing to us uh regardless of the situation regardless of circumstance the socioeconomic status of the family system give us a call we mean it I didn’t have to bring it up he brought it up we’re talking about real genuine people and hard-working people on behalf of family systems and getting people well in a really disorienting environment at times as we’ve all talked about on finding Peaks so uh you know thanks again to the crisis case management team nationally and globally working on behalf of family systems again my name is Brandon Burns chief executive officer for Peaks recovery centers uh please email us thoughts ideas questions that’s how we do these episodes finding Peaks at peaksrecovery.com find us on the tick tocks the Facebooks the twitters all the Social Media stuff we love you all thanks to you so much for joining us and we’ll see you next time