Episode 61

well hello everyone welcome back to another excellent episode that you are about to watch on finding peaks here brandon burns chief executive officer of peaks recovery centers joined by a special guest today kevin miller podcast expert as i know him at least in this moment we’ll learn more with the podcast self helpful he’ll brag a little bit about it throughout the episode as well as talk more about it we’ll provide links all the important things so that you can find him on the podcast uh in the future and uh also joined today jason friesma chief clinical officer all things clinical joined on the program and before i maybe dive into my own introduction uh here as well too i think jason you want to say a few words about kevin um kevin i i do want to thank you for coming on finding peeks it is really a big honor because we are kind of a big deal and we’re you know fledgling i would say uh in our podcast endeavor um but i really wanted to you know kevin and i we were talking before the show we go way back i think we figured maybe 17 years or so um in in our lives have woven in and out of each other but um you know kevin for me you know as i was driving down this morning like i would be remiss if i didn’t mention like that uh when my son noah was 11 years old and um i won’t belabor this story but like he had a tumor in his head and it was by far this some of the most scary moments of my life occurred during that time and one of the things was is that the the children’s hospital in denver couldn’t help him or treat him and i asked him where where can he get treatment and they said vanderbilt hospital in nashville and i’m like make us an appointment never been to nashville never set foot in tennessee um and some somewhere along the way somebody called and said hey you know kevin miller’s family lives there and i called you and we we flew to your family’s house on mother’s day that that year of 2011 and they took us in for a month as we walked through the the amazing roller coaster that was that journey and um was so grateful to you and and to your parents for letting us in so um yeah i just want to start with that uh because it you that meant a lot to me it still does mean a lot to me if i talked anymore about it get choked up like i just really want to thank you for that kind of publicly i know i thanked you back in the day but my honor to be a part of it yeah it was awesome well in in and in lieu of that i think you know here at finding peaks we’ve we’ve talked a lot about well one the thing that i love talking about is disrupting you know the industry the behavioral health industry that we work in and i think as we’ve gone on and explored some of these episodes you know from you know the feedback from finding peaks at peaksrecovery.com continue to send us your ideas thoughts opinions but you know i can only uh you know point out so many ways to disrupt this and at times i think it’s important to learn from others about their own journeys their processes how they’ve grown developed you know businesses provided solutions opportunities like your podcast kevin and so forth and so we are expanding a little bit outside of this um to learn a little bit more i think about somebody who’s created something special and brings um a great deal into this world through his podcast through relationships that jason just described here as well and uh so i think today we’re in exploratory territory and uh looking to learn more from our friend kevin here uh and and see what we can take away from that in lieu of this concept of disrupting an industry before we find ourselves in those you know waited in those waters kevin tell us a little bit more about yourself um your podcast your inspirations your goals like how did you arrive in this seat with us today now i was born into it you just mentioned my parents yeah and um i i grew up in a home two parents who were very they really came out of their left their upbringings my dad was came from amish uh background and their pursuit of psychology of understanding and awareness was their salvation i mean it really was so i grew up amongst them being kind of guinea pigs with themselves and even me i probably took more personality profiles since you know before i was 10 than anybody has in a lifetime and so the aspect of personal development and personal growth and bettering ourselves was just part of my family’s ethos so i got to grow up with that amongst that going to conferences with my dad and even as i went into other areas of life that was always the interest i spent a long time as a pro cyclist and at the end of that ended up kind of developing an organization and saying how can we help people in all areas of their lives through this platform you know realizing if you have any platform where you have some expertise you’ve got influence and man the power of that and the opportunity that was immense and so i’ve gone through a lot of different businesses some that were just opportunistic some that i really cared about but they all really had the same threads of communicating people and kind of coming together and say how can we take a common platform and help each other grow and change and really how i came to the podcasting i was leading an organization helping people who wanted to pursue self-employment and at the end or as that progressed it was just it’s just personal development you know the the employment aspect was just a platform for their lives to live out what they cared about what they what their values were and that led has continued to lead me into at this point that’s all i talk about i don’t talk a whole lot about business in and of itself it’s it’s all personal development and even how you do that through your business and it’s that’s just what i it’s just the ideas that i like to talk about yeah yeah well you know for me you know in listening to some of the you know podcasts before you know meeting you in person here and uh coming on here that that there’s this just this balance that i never could have seen when i first started you know with peaks recovery centers uh in extrinsic intrinsic motivators on top of that work life balance as a new owner and excited to disrupt an industry and all these sort of things i was unaware of all of this language and all of this responsibility really at the end of the day and what i’ve learned in time is that there’s a great deal of responsibility within running a business within an organization namely yes we are positioned as an ethos to save lives at peaks recovery centers each and every day but we are also in a position where we will never succeed on in in such a high level ethos if we’re not nurturing the culture of the organization and the individuals within that and just curious through kind of your experiences and all the folks that you have met you know how often that comes up as a balance between um you know the the personal family relationships and then the responsibility to those relationships within any type of business setting yeah i’ve um i’ve struggled in that as i’ve always been self-employed and in my intent put family first and i really did that to a degree even to the point of sacrificing finances and i never forget a time when my wife she said look the best way you could save or or serve our family right now is just go make some money you know uh or or better yet i wasn’t so bad at making it i just didn’t keep much of it and uh you know so so that balance was one on the other side when you talk about the company culture i am i have suffered significantly from being the consummate project purpose goal-driven guy and not taking care of those around me kind of taken for not kind of taking them for granted in the pursuit of the mission and i have two organizations that i that did very well that i really drove down because of that and it’s made me look at how the type of business i want to have so do i become a better you know manager and whatnot or do i have a business where i don’t have to do that as much i’ve kind of gone that direction but you still have to employ people to some degree and it’s really caused me to kind of step back and and look as as business owners at what type of business do you want to have i got the unique opportunity to see my dad dan miller and dave ramsey most people know dave as the financial guru who were buddies together at the time of their demise and then kind of grew up together and now today both very successful and where they want to be and dave employs most of nashville i think and controls everything and my dad’s the exact opposite works primarily out of his house and has lots of people who work for him but it’s been interesting to see success and how that comes to people in ways that fit them well yeah yeah yeah it’s interesting and you know how did you work through that you know once you were aware maybe that you were putting too much into you know one bucket as opposed to the other like you know maybe you know bring us close to some of the the challenges for you in that moment and how you balance that because i find myself you know coming into like my household at times with my wife saying hey look the reason this is a little stressed right now between you and i uh is okay and important to go through because we have this opportunity over here and if we get to here then this is all settled in the background and there it seems to me like as a personal relationship there’s like a negotiating going on you know at any given time to get it right because it um it feels big at times to just want to go home and just really elevate this all of a sudden and then like maybe lowered over here but um it feels like more of a project to really get that balance right and curious what you went through to arrive at kind of this piece that you seem to have around


gosh that’s gracious probably um i i so often i don’t know if it’s a fair perspective but talk to figuring out ways to manage our dysfunctions and i think i say it that way because we you know in the industry of personal development and self-help we have that idea of you know you gotta overcome the weaknesses and as time has gone on i don’t know that i’ve overcome them as far as eradicating them but i have figured out ways to manage them so even to a degree you know to manage them and so even with work and family again i think i took on what my parents did and work was not such a separate dissimilar thing it was it was so much of i was fortunate privileged it was so much of of of who we are and what we do and what we’re doing at work is the same thing that we’re talking about at the dinner table and that really helped bring it together you know even today in my office is kind of like the hub in town where the kids come after school and they see me and i i had a kid sitting down one time and i was doing some intros and outros for the shows and he hadn’t seen it was one of the kids but i guess i didn’t see and i said dad i mean you’re like a rock star awesome well thanks man it’s great to have them see uh to see that and to be a part of that it’s where it’s not but you know it’s hard to have them involved in everything because yeah so much happens you come home at the end think how on earth can i get you guys up to speed yeah there’s a lot of times when i just don’t i just it’s just i’m i’m gonna set that down i had a friend one time talk about you know going into work and picking up that sword it was his terminology so i swore for work and then coming into his driveway and having to learn i’m going to put that one down and pick up a different one and i probably vacillate you know back and forth i have realized as my kids have gotten older i’ve got a lot of kids so i’ve got older ones and then still younger ones the i should have i should have known it from seeing it with my parents or experiencing it but the inspiration it is to them to see me doing something i am really inspired by that has been profound and so in that talking to them about work and what i do and the relevance of it in their lives is significant it feels it feels like a great privilege yeah honestly and that probably helps salve a lot of the things because there are the stressors that everybody has yeah you say balance that’s a gracious word yeah well in you know i went and gave a talk at uh university of colorado colorado springs a couple months ago i was invited in an email kind of didn’t know what i was stepping into i think i was in the social work department when i stepped in i think i thought it was going to inspire a bunch of clinicians to come work for you know peaks recovery at the end of the day and i walked in and i thought okay there’s a hundred students in this room and they’re actually looking for something to be said thoughtfully about their direction their growth their opportunities and i thought okay i need to change from my puffy chest coming in here disrupt pull in clinical people got to change my whole narrative and the best thing i thought to give them in that moment because i felt it in the room they were asking the panel really like how do i obtain my job what is the next steps to this and this sort of thing and the heartfelt thing that i thought was valuable to bring to them in that moment was you know you guys were about to step into a world and ask for your first job you’re about to step into an interview process and what does that look like and i want to let you all know that my best interviews are when somebody comes in and interviews us we’re on the table for the job we’re the ones who have to represent that this is going to be valuable and worthwhile for your effort eight hours a day five days a week 40 hours plus a week all that sort of stuff and if you guys can find what you’re passionate about and bring that in and be the interviewer in that process i i almost guaranteed to them that they would find like fulfillment in their work life and opportunities and see right away where the work life didn’t fit i share all of that because i got two fathers in front of me and i myself am not a father uh in this lifetime and for that i think that thing that i wanted to ask just through your experiences and certainly would love to hear your feedback jason is like you know uh what what advice are we given to the kids in this regard about how to approach these opportunities about how to find this gracious balance in life between work family and these sort of things out of these lived experiences that you’ve been involved with i mean i appreciate the question and and really um you know this this crazy journey of being a father is uh it is a challenge and um you know just always putting attuning to the kids seems so important attuning to whatever they need attuning to the conversations they need to have and helping them find their interests and helping them find not just their interest but like themselves seems what’s most important at least when i look at that and so um and being willing to have hard conversations and and lean into um just difficult situations and making sure that all topics lead to discussion rather than developing taboo subjects within the family system and i think um i’m certainly not going to give myself an a plus on that in any sort of way either but i do think kind of conceptually and i’m sure that does come from my clinical background as well but that is just conceptually how i think of being a father what about you kev i i had the fortunate opportunity of having some kids we had three and thought we were done and then realized we weren’t and had a bunch more and so i could see the mistakes i made with the older ones and go oh yeah that didn’t work let’s do this different over here and yeah that going from the you know in essence the the preaching to the just joining in a discussion and having questions and then what you said about you know looking at work has has continued to come up as i have older kids we look at the job we look at the opportunity we look at the pay we look at the title we look at that we don’t look at in 60 days who am i going to have been sitting next to all day long and in what environment is there a window what’s the noise like what’s the what’s the the ethos of the company what’s the atmosphere like man we don’t look at that and yet so often what drove or what attracted us there 60 90 days later it doesn’t matter if some of those core minute to minute things are in disarray and so getting to talk to the kids there and look at their quality of life and doing oh my gosh my dad wrote the book 48 days to the work you love you know and so working at something that you care about again i was given that on a silver platter and so talking with my kids uh about that now is so powerful even as you know i have a 17 year old who’s working at the local barbecue place cleaning out the grill and whatever he knows but it’s something he can do right now and others at farmer’s market you know doing things that they may or may not enjoy but they’re learning business which all the kids have done and kind of uh seeing that pattern out into as they get older to doing things that they that really again they don’t see such a separation between work and life if what they’re working at is a part of who they are and that’s that’s what i would wish for anyone it grieves me to see you mentioned you know the office and some of the things that we poke fun at the dilbert stuff and we were talking about retirement early and and the people i’m so privileged to know people who love what they do they the retirement’s not even they’re just looking at how they can elongate their lives so they keep doing it right and we have such a sea of people over here who do not enjoy their nature looking to retire which and when they do it’s generally not a good picture and man what a paradigm shift yeah absolutely we were talking before the episode that sometimes you know and the viewers know i get pretty puffy chests about disrupting this industry and uh you know brute force moving through it and highlighting problems with it without pointing at particular companies we could have some grace about this we’ve come our own journey you know as well too jason you know this we have been anything but perfect at times trying to figure out how to do this right how to provide better care and so forth and so as i shared with you guys in the beginning there’s ways in which i come in and i and i believe wholeheartedly on both ends of the spectrum that we can get this right and we can do this and on this side of it it’s like nothing’s in our way of doing it on this side of it it’s kind of a fear like maybe i’m making bigger statements than i can actually do like it starts to feel impossible the more and more i you know move out from the picture in that regard and um kind of you know bringing that or inviting that back into this discussion um are there times in which like maybe you felt like you’re a bit over your ski tips or a bit over the bicycle in this regard from your bicycling uh journey and adventures in life you know where you felt like maybe this is bigger than what i set out to do and if that’s true at all then you know how did you move through that or move past that or how did you you know uh who did you bring close to you to you know pull you through those moments yeah most the things were a little overwhelming but that’s what motivated me and again i was given such a gift to see my my parents my dad especially try so many things there’s a guy joe hansen he wrote the book the medici effect and he talked about entrepreneurs in there and it’s such a pithy little thing but it always stuck with me he says we find that they’re not great risk takers they’re not so brilliant whatever they just are willing to try more things than the average person and it stuck out to me and so i i’ve i’ve gone forward trying so many different things a lot of them that felt like i have no business doing this but i had faith that you know it’ll it’ll work out and if it doesn’t work out i’m not going to die and so would go after things but what you’re talking about i mean i i love the word disruption i’ve always thought of myself as a as a rebel but i’ve also hurt myself going that direction thinking what man what’s happening out there is it’s totally stupid that’s the dumbest thing we’re going to do it totally different and we’re just going to kill it and and in retrospect realizing that there’s some balance of being disruptive and there’s also a benefit of holding on to some of the tenants that we do know work um even like with you know in the online sales industry there’s some things that you want to disrupt but man if you get into a shopping cart in essence people are used to amazon if you go really left field and it doesn’t look kind of like amazon they’re just not going to buy they don’t trust it so just look like amazon in that part of it now maybe do something different over here and sell an actual quality product and whatnot so what’s that balance between disruption and some of the the norms that people are comfortable with and kind of kind of back to the old marketing thing of giving people what they want so you can give them what they need and you know it’s it’s a process and i haven’t always been so great in my efforts to disrupt in honoring some of the process and i can come in chest puffed out bull in a china shop and um and and just nobody has any footing so i’ve done that and so now what do i do i’m a little more patient i i tried i used to be so proud of the you know aim fire we’ll get ready later yeah and i still like that i still like crafting my life around that but like with my recent podcast revision it was a big decision i mean there’s a lot of money riding on it and so i was patient i didn’t pull the trigger and i and i sought more counsel than i probably ever have from from peers from you know beyond peers and even from my own audience and uh really tried to be wise and a little more patient i still love being impatient but in some ways at least for me relative to me yeah be a little more a little more patient and seek a little more counsel has been a big part of my growth as of late yeah yeah i love that because i and jason you know on my my uh linkedin page i’ve i’ve fired off a couple yeah you do like to be disruptive on that couple you know puffy chest moments but i’ve since doing that you know and also in reviewing you know a couple of your podcast episodes really recently as well too i thought i’m really coming new into linkedin as a market you know peaks recovery going back four years ago abandoned foot marketing principles we went all online which i’m super grateful for as a decision i think it’s powerful i think it gives us a you know a greater reach i think it has in a great way uh being in a studio like this led to a lot of our success along the way but in that way we’ve been silently growing and doing our thing and discovering ourselves and our processes in the background and the industry doesn’t really know a lot about us it particularly here in the state of colorado in a way that they really knew about us 2017 in prior because we were actively engaged with him in a big way and through that time experience i feel like you know in a way i’ve been you know some people told peaks to live the the ethics of the industry so we went and did that and then what happened i saw those people turn around and not live those ethics and it’s hard not to be you know resentful in hindsight of that as well too so again i got my linkedin page open and now i’m just finding myself staring at it i got a ton of things i just want to type in there and send and eat that world and take that and here’s your disruption you know and all those sort of things but um you know i’m just learning in the process through you know books and podcasts and other people who’ve done it you know before us that there is some important sensitivity to just kind of staring at the page thinking how do i want this message to come out how do i want people to receive this uh because it’s important that they receive it well if i’m going to do anything of the disruptive you know type in that regard and um you know i guess maybe that’s kind of in a way recapitulating i think a lot of what i received and what you just said but um is that kind of familiar to you as kind of like in your growth um and journey just kind of finding those moments to be more still and patient when you say or taking that step back when you talk about being patient daily honestly daily i’m so


recently i saw i’m in the middle of a book deal and you know there’s there’s timelines and whatnot and and i found myself a couple weeks ago looking in my focus i could get up in the morning i’ve got to finish this book or you know finish this chapter and had a i had a friend it was actually a class uh like a membership group that i have and but we do it’s kind of almost like a round table type discussion and i don’t know that they brought this to me but through what they were saying i extrapolated and it was you know who who am i serving who it’s again so pithy in elementary but who am i serving and so often i get my panties on the wad to go get this thing done pull the trigger and make it you know figured out and and don’t sit back who what was the point of this right i mean this book the point was a saturday morning i know the date and i was sitting there and it was just something on my heart to share with my older kids that i realized some things that i had not done well in in uh regretted being aware of some of my values and directions that i was going and i wanted this for them that’s where it started and to sit back thoughtfully and being present and kind of i just think i get my spirit right you know within it what am i doing this for whom am i doing this for why am i doing this take a deep breath and and that’s daunting to me honestly because i can realize how many hours days whatever i can just be plowing ahead and it’s not that i’m disassociated from my values at all but i can still go at it a different way and it’s really great having a highbrow editor who goes dude this doesn’t make sense you’re right i don’t know where i was when i wrote that thing and kill that and write something new and it’s brilliant i know i just but i that’s daunting to know that i can go i can go astray again not off of values morals and ethics but just in my communication and the heart of of what i’m doing so being drawn back to that yeah is to be the word that’s so


common now for me is just to be contemplative can i just and seek counsel those those two instead of just going ahead which is great if you’re a pro cyclist man it doesn’t matter what’s happening no excuses no limits man it’s just pedal to the metal that works there it doesn’t it’s it’s not what i have it’s not what i’ve benefited most from in my life and in my work as far as what’s most meaningful again i love i love disruption and and being a rebel and pulling the trigger and making things happen and some of that’s just fun yeah um but for what has been most sustaining it’s been through a more contemplative caring getting my heart right yeah aspect yeah you know i shared with uh you know jason you know this journey with you know my brother chris burns who’s also a uh an important host on uh these episodes uh also again team check him out on the tick tock follow his pounding of the heart and all that energy and just want to honor my brother there uh and we talked a little bit how i before the episode how i obtained this role you know and um of you know chief executive officer in june of 2020 around that time and i’ve been in this now for two years as a seat the company is eight years old chris was the six years before that and i take so much of his now he had i think a better heart about it in a way when i think about rebellion and that sort of thing i don’t want to say he was straight rebel he had a big heart for the process and the journey we were on but man he smashed through some walls you know and just blew things out of the water things like i would look at and be like oh we’re going to lose it all you know it’s moving way too fast we got to slow down but at the same time i can within this role i’m in alignment with what you’re stating about what is more sustainable you know having this balance this uh charitable balance between you know rebellion and taking a step back being patient yeah knowing your heart your journey but it was so important i think that chris was the beginning of this journey because i don’t think we would be here or we would look a lot different if i were in this if i were in the role for those first six years so yeah out of that just curious where sort of that rebellious feature you know you’ve seen in kind of reflection of it had had greatly worked for you because it is important i think to have that you know just point at the barrel and shoot you know and go for it and just curious about you know before you found or worked yourself into that balance where um you saw that rebellion really working for you or where it’s important to deploy that rebellion in hindsight you know maybe for the viewers or people thinking about how do i how do i bring this beast down but at the same time like i know i got to contain it at some point but where do i deploy it you know something around there yeah i i like the concept of that and i think i look more so now at seasons and cycles for things and there’s a season for the rebellion and the disruption to break things up and to create the opportunity and then there’s a season for okay now let’s figure out how to run this well and maintain this well and that’s not a skill of mine and i’ve had to employ other people there’s a guy i had on the show i’ve had him a couple of times jonathan fields his first book um i don’t remember the name of uh it was a really good book though uh but his second one is called sparked and he created this it’s kind of like another personality profile type thing but his is really just focused on work and what sparks you with work and i really like it it’s so simple and it was just so significant it didn’t surprise me but it was neat for me to see that i am they call it a maker i like a blank sheet of paper and an idea and let’s create a framework then i’m done that’s kind of all i want to do and so if that’s the case then i’ve got to have some other people with me to help balance that out again it’s elementary stuff but as as whether it’s entrepreneurs or just people even creatives you know to realize that i’ve got so many friends who are artists and they’re great at that breaking through and creating something like that and then they don’t know how to do another one or to keep their life going in the meantime or their family going or they don’t know how to sell it or run a business and these things sometimes i think we don’t see the most brilliant people ever come to fruition because they don’t they can’t get their crap together so we get so i’m a second-tier guy who maybe not the most brilliant but just enough to keep stuff together to bring it to market and yeah so looking at that i love the having to break through um the rebellion or or use the rebellion to break through we jason knows we built up a crazy house i almost was gonna bring this up actually it’s just a good example of this so we built a a straw a house out of straw bale so it’s a okay and you hear about that and you see these little homes ours is not a little home it’s a big it’s a big house it’s a 4 800 square foot box of first floor and second floor post and beam but then it’s infilled with straw bales and it’s totally weird it worked it’s really good insulation but it’s really weird i remember thinking like have you ever heard of the three little pigs yeah i know everybody everybody everybody says that but in doing this thing i mean i just thought man i bought the land i’m just going to build whatever i want to i was that naive and i realized no you don’t just go build whatever you want to in whatever city or county you’re in they’re going to tell you and we literally came to points where they said you cannot do that uh they wanted to make us put a a a like the weather shield kind of stuff around it you can’t do that these things have to be that’ll ruin it you can’t well you can’t do that it’s against code and so many times i’ve found myself in business since different places where it’s just it’s a hard no it but you can’t it can’t be it you can’t accept that and to realize that you can generally work through that and it’s and what a faith builder yeah i want people on the rebel side and the disruption side to realize man there’s really not anything that can’t be to some degree or to a great degree it can’t it it can be but it’s you’re gonna pay a cost you’re gonna i mean can you are you the type of person that can withstand that and that doesn’t need to be all people either i think i’ve gone through a time thinking everybody needs to be in that way thank god everybody is not that way because i’m good to get through to that point like to disrupt to get through but if we’re gonna maintain this thing we’re it’s gonna dive and i’ve done that again i’ve got i’ve i think for my book thing they you know doing the bio and i’ve started 19 businesses i’ve killed we didn’t do the number of how many i killed i mean i killed them because i didn’t do i didn’t i did i just did the disruption and rebel and got the opportunity going and it went boom and boom and there’s my trajectory with a lot of things yeah and uh yeah i’m i’m hopefully this podcast will be here in a year yeah you know but i i think it will be yeah absolutely and and uh you know pardon me again for you know listening uh being inspired by listening through but trying to collect the authors and so forth on the episodes that have um have come through your podcast and one of them again i was trying to before the episode talk about him uh he wrote a book success of something uh or a book around success but um what caught me in the episode is he said staff the liabilities and it seemed to really catch your attention yes that was a recent one yeah it was really recent yeah one of the one of the recent ones uh in that regard but it seems to be it seems to be a big part of kind of what you just communicated that yeah maybe i’m up here at times as the leader and maybe i’m just down in the flow but at the same time i’ve recognized through my rebellions that i can’t possibly do all of the things i wish to disrupt or without the inclusion of this team environment and so um just curious about how in that moment in the podcast you know kind of as a language um it seems like a lived experience for you and what makes sense for you around staff in the library oh my gosh yeah you’re totally right i’m i just am so regretful i can’t pull up who it was that looking at personality profiles uh a lot of people know that any of them dis meyersburg whatever but you look at your strengths and you know from a vocational standpoint especially you know i was i was really brought up and i’m grateful for and you you want to live in your strengths i mean i want to live as a kind of that maker thing i want to create something and i want to live in there as much as i can and i don’t really want to screw around with my weaknesses i just but i didn’t really look at staffing them and taking care i just didn’t want to deal with them i’m just going to go here and live in my strengths and that’s where we see my trajectory of you know a big win and then a big heck i was like that as a cyclist i was an incredibly mediocre pro cyclist and it would be on the podium one week and the next week i can’t even hold on to the weakest guy and uh and so this is a common common thing but you know looking at the at the strengths and i was just so focused on that and not so much on staffing the liability as this wise guy who i can’t call up his name um said and that has been i think a lot of regret honestly i’m uh i just had dan pink on the show he has the power of regret i had him on the show immediately well i know who dan is but because i’ve always felt like i’m not a no regrets person i’ve got a lot of them i’m grateful for the wisdom i have from them that’s redemptive and stuff but i look back man i hurt people i wouldn’t i’m not okay with that and there was a lot of that of not uh staffing the yeah the the weakness or whatnot and i uh and i have regrets there so when he said that it’s it stuck out to me as that’s where i am now and i’m literally at a point of employ i have more people i say employ not that i’m paying independent contractors primarily even from the you know the big publishing deal i’ve actually employed another big name editor because i want it to be great and they hold me accountable i got to show up for the deadline which is good for a guy like me and they help me see what i’m i’m missing and i haven’t been there before and i’m having more success now than ever it’s a consummate story but i look back and i’m i have some regrets of how long it took me to staff the liability in my life and i would say that’s past work that’s even into my parenting and marriage and yeah we can go across the board with that one okay well i appreciate that feedback and um i’m glad that uh or i’m i’m glad to see in a way that i got the same uh you know sort of uprising of excitement or um focus on in the way that i heard in that podcast moment as well too it’s cool to be a part of this with you and experience that passion and you know one of the things that’s coming up for me as well too and i think inevitably i want to take this home and talk more about uh the self-helpful podcast a little bit before taking it out for an exit but um so much within a work environment what i’ve learned over time and i think it’s a common learning experience for a lot of folks is you know the first things i dealt with in our work environment the negativity i received was like at a conference talking about an ethics or something and the negativity as an or the negative experience would be like oh man we’re not doing that i think we got i got to get that right i’m going to write that down to take it back right and now like within this role as a ceo and certainly as a chief clinical officer probably taking more negativity from the patient demographic not because they are intending to be negative with us but because they are suffering as individuals and for that reason their strategies become external rather than internal they pointed all the things in front of us and with each and every passing year i think i’ve got resilience you know we can have a patient a few weeks ago like oh i’m gonna you know sue peaks or something of this nature right they have aggression they have discomfort they want control and power and ways in which they don’t have it you know when we walk through those moments and i can hear those things well now and i can walk through those moments with patient journeys you know at the same time this week all of a sudden we’ve deployed so much effort into quality programming around saving lives disrupting industry deploying our core values and what came up this week jason the landscaping of all things i have never in eight years i have never heard somebody say you know what’s wrong with this place you know what i can’t stand here the landscaping and i think and i’m like awesome partly devastated by it because we’re putting so much energy into these projects to empower them and now it’s like this new sort of negative feature and so for all of the things that i’m learning and for all the ways i i think i’m building resilience like these little tiny frustrations that you know we receive from our patient demographic become really big things and i find myself like did we arrive eight years into this to lose everything over landscaping you know here at peaks recovery centers and curious from your experiences because no doubt in different ways you’ve been poked at or prodded at you know um you know maybe negativity is a strong word here but you know probably in your experiences you experienced what felt like negativity and then over the course of this journey that you’ve been on you know how do you find yourself building the resilience moving through it are you are you seeing somebody like jason on the side you know is it is it a spiritual journey you know what is it about your path that allows you to show up even in moments of which like wow this is seemingly fairly negative and i didn’t know this was going to happen today goodness that’s a big question


i have not been in tune to the negativity as much as i i wish i had more there’s a you know story told of you know earthquakes and hurricanes and tornadoes get all the press but there’s a lot more damage done throughout the year by by by termites it those little little things and i’ve seen that like being resilient i think i’m resilient until i’m not till the day comes and i’m not man coming to my own end i mean yeah if you want to get personal do i yeah i i have counselors and that i’ve come to because i thought i was x and i was capable and resilient whatever until the day came or the moment came and all of a sudden i realized i’m not man i’m at my end this is new and you know you don’t experience it until it gets acute enough to experience it i mean this is your business and looking at that you know now i i am much more i’m learning to be much more attentive to those little things that they build up i mean i’m i’m involved a lot in the health and wellness industry and you know again you’re usually going you don’t all right today we go man i’m smoking you know 10 packs a day and i haven’t had cancer yet i’m not going to until all sudden i do and then you know game over possibly i don’t want to be i don’t want to be there so what am i so again back to being you know present what are the things that are what are the rubs today what are the things that are stressing my resilience am i okay with that or am i just enduring through the day and getting past it but it’s gonna build up and man that accumulation we just had a show on age and ageism and not dispelling the craw the the the relevance of chronological daily aging but it’s not really the age it’s the wear and tear it’s the same thing we see with the cars it doesn’t matter if it’s got a hundred thousand miles on it it matters on how it was driven over those hundred thousand miles it may have another 300 mile thousand miles or maybe toast and and there we are whether it’s our health and wellness whether it’s our emotional uh capacity whether it’s our business health and i have not stayed attuned to those little things again i’ve done well in my role but i have you know and in that i would say in that am i going to be the guy that notices those small things probably not okay so that’s why i employ and i can you know give the list of people who are contacting me you know today and and even have the thought i recently just you know tasked somebody i go look at the stats what’s happening we made the name change where is everything going i can’t even figure it out i don’t want to figure it out i did have the thought to have it figured out i’ll pay you to go figure it out and let’s make sure a termite’s not eaten away at that so you know the wisdom that comes with i some of it i i get i’ll take credit for wisely maturely coming to but man so much of it i came to when it got acute dang it


yeah well thank you for that i you know but so much of it’s it’s uh it’s been such a journey and jason has been just as much a part of the growth of our organization as anything with an ownership title these sorts of things um just been a tremendous asset so i know it resonates too yeah for the room in general to walk through our growth experiences our rebellion moments you know all of those sort of things and i think you know i got into this business and i think okay yeah we’re going to save lives we’re going to do this and then it becomes about you know the landscaping on you know one day and i would just a great story and the reason i appreciate your your shared journey with it as well too is so many young entrepreneurs so many people who experience that rebellion and wanting to disrupt and there’s so many things we can disrupt in this world positively speaking in that regard that aren’t aware of the potential you know lacunas and tripwires and things along the way that they’re going to experience whether it’s the balancing of you know employee relationships at work while also being attuned to the responsibility maybe we share as an organization for individuals livelihoods at home maybe it’s the landscaping these small little things you can’t see along the way that people are going to throw at you that you can’t experience but in a way lived experiences and showing them that these opportunities can be obtained and to just be aware of these things because we have the experiences of learning them in real time through our you know uh our rebellion you know type attitudes and so i think these these shared stories are just so important for people looking to inspire their own growth journeys whether within a company or being their own entrepreneurs and uh you know kind of bringing it full circuit i said how i desire to kind of you know take this out with you today i wanted to talk a little bit about you know self helpful from your perspective and what you’re trying to because i know you brought several podcasts together into this one what was what were you seeing in these uh alternative podcasts that were like you know what these are good but i think they go together you know better as a blend or what what inspired and brought this journey together ultimately for this podcast that you’re working on now and also with that shared experience what are you hopeful that people are receiving from your podcast what do you want them to walk away inspired of or attuned to or what is that experience you’re that that ethos you’re really trying to deliver yeah some of the questions are just the response is looking at the podcast industry talk about a place of disruption it’s still such the wild west of things changing and me looking at it and i started a while ago and things were kind of static and um i mean my i was fortunate to have some success early on with it but you know i had this show called the ziggler show it was based on zig ziglar’s teachings and there’s a story behind how that happened but so i took that on and it did really well and then i co-founded a functional medicine practice with a friend of ours yeah yeah with a friend of ours and he and i are constantly talking about and we were talking about health and wellness but the same thing he’s on the other side of the wall talking to one patient about how to change the trajectory of their life and change their health and wellness and i’m on a microphone tens of thousands of people talking somewhat similar but they’re both subject to our ability to inspire the person to do anything all the all the information he can give that person is still dependent on them walking out the door and them doing it same thing with me on their microphone but we’re talk having these conversations man that’d be a great podcast so we started this separate podcast because it was a little outside and that was a true live podcast and then i get this inspiration for a book and a book deal and thought okay let’s let’s do one there and i’m doing three podcasts and it’s just it’s still me it’s still me it all overlap so some of it was that and just the the structure of of that but also looking at podcasting and what do people want kind of back to that thing what are they if i want here’s what i i want to give them what they need i want them to do this but what do i give them what they want and you just mentioned story and that is not my natural i’m not a storyteller okay i just don’t i’m a bullet point guy okay i don’t have a whole lot of patience for stories i mean i like a good movie yeah you know but um and that’s that’s not what people want on a podcast they want to hear the stories and i’m getting irritated at somebody deviating off here and i’m like let’s get back to the point that’s not what people want they want to hear the story they want to hear the rabbit trail they want to hear the context because that’s what they relate to i mean it’s stereotypical stuff but i wasn’t doing that well so it was me stepping back again and going now what do people want asking them looking at the things that are working well talking to peers who are in the industry right now and saying how can i best so i have this thing that i want to deliver how can i best do it and that was looking at best business practices in some sense that was not a disruptive thing you know now on the disruptive side though so with self-helpful which was i mean even from the name to the graphics to everything we’re out there playing the game how can we do well to get people to see this notice that download the show but now in the show what can i do so i it’s interesting i i did a stand-up desk i had a custom natural wood stand-up desk for my studio so i’m i’m up well it won’t be in a minute okay hold on because i got an awesome he just got one no i like the i have that at my regular desk and so but i had at the podcast i thought man it’ll help the energy man i’ll be i’ll be on it i now have a stupid tall stool at my podcast so that i’ll just calm down we had a guy said it sounds like kevin is just like the adhd poster child because i’m just i i get i get going so i need to drink a glass of wine if i could think clearly just to give calm down take a vine and and chill out because people don’t want the fast pa they want us more slow contemplative and i’m getting better feedback from that so it’s even changing you know my style and and getting more into the story now i do have my points though i mean i i spend a lot of time and i and i pull out i had a guy on today and his uh tyler merritt he has a video if you look it up it’s called before you call the cops so he’s a six foot two dreadlocked black guy and it’s it’s talking on racism but i didn’t want to really just focus on racism we’ve kind of we’ve done that so i really wanted to talk about marginalization and stereotyping that is relevant to pretty much anybody but white american men for the most part you know everybody’s experienced that and so i get to take it down that path and so even as we veer whatever i i know i have the avatar of the people that i’m talking to that i knew that i want to serve with this message so i can bring it back and weave that and that’s something that’s important to me because it’s not just a willy-nilly show to go off and end up talking about landscaping or greenville or couches or something i do have a point here and that’s my responsibility and my joy and opportunity you know in the show so that’s one piece of it and then a new piece of the show that’s a little bit of a disrupter it’s different is looking at them is not just a one-shot deal so tyler i had him on today we recorded and you’re gonna hear a part one and it’s talking about that main message of marginalization and stereotyping and then there’s going to be a part two where they hear behind the scenes what are his values in these key areas of life what are his habits amongst those it’s really a personal thing people i’ve actually tried to discontinue it and people really like hearing it they love hearing the they resonate with that and it almost always brings in aspects of their person’s core message because that’s what they’re about and then i do a third part on this on that person with someone else though with a peer in essence a co-host and we’ll talk about that and hear it so if it’s especially if it’s on health and wellness i’ll talk to randy james dr randy james and he’ll say yeah this is how this is working out or what i’m dealing with my literal patients and so the people get a three-part series because i think we need more than just a one shot of this great message and then we go on to the next one and we’re in such a consumption society i do it too i want the next book the next show the next whatever instead of realizing no that’s actually so significant i should probably not read or listen to anything but that for the next year so that i actually make some kind of a change so i’m trying to address that by giving people a bit of a series so it’s again playing with that give them what they want but then i think that they would be served best we know statistically repetition helps and engagement and whatnot so there’s the tension the balance however you want to call it yeah no i appreciate that because i’m gonna walk away with a lot of that you know when i when i sit in this host sheet host seat one of the things that i think is so important is there are so many there’s so many uh illnesses within our industry that just don’t work that are profoundly inappropriate at times and i want to empower the family systems you know that are you know gonna sit down for an hour 20 minutes however long these episodes go for to go okay that’s good information my loved one’s suffering colorado’s too far from me but i’m going to call this facility and i’m going to give them what brandon burns just told me to ask in that regard but at the same time you know i always joke with jason like i’m a better host jason’s kind of a host you know and chris and we we challenge each other in those ways but you know to the point you know these two guys are getting a lot more love and appreciation and following i don’t take that personally but what i take away from this as well too is just how do i bring the story closer like these illnesses i talk about it’s one thing to throw the rock at it and break the mirror right it’s another thing to say let me describe what a patient journey looks like up until this moment and why it’s inappropriate and you know for me that’s just positive feedback and another way that i can nurture this seat you know that i’m sitting in so i greatly appreciate that uh to take this out uh on uh in a way is to kind of steal an outro that i can’t remember the name of the podcast forgive me out there if this is like your shtick uh at the end but what i thought was cool about the end of it and why i’m compelled to do it here is you seem like a uh you don’t seem like a person you are the person who i experience is reading many books meeting many people and be inspired by many things and so one of the outros of this podcast uh is that he asked the person to recommend three books uh in that regard and uh before we plug your show at the end of this i’m curious about which three books you would recommend to maybe the audience here at finding peaks that’s led to where you’re at that you know maybe in time has worked for you or that is more working for you today but maybe three books you can give us to kind of go peruse in the background that inspires you it’s the worst question ever okay i’ll try to do that i get that i i i do i get the privilege of so many books and every book to me is pretty much a nugget something that just resonated rocked my world and i’ll remember that and not remember the book but you know historically there are there are a couple you mentioned donald miller and now i’ll never forget reading his book a million miles in a thousand years about what makes a good story he goes through he actually went to uh a script writer famous scriptwriter yeah and okay okay yeah yeah and what makes a good story a character who wants something and overcomes conflict to get it dude that is a philosophy of life right there we look at what matters to us what matters to other people uh was so significant and just what is living a good story i i literally bought cases i had a business at the time and i gave those books uh away and i still appreciate that and again it was it was a nugget he has a whole book and i a couple things stuck out to me that have been uh that have really been anchors um i’m on the i say the spiritual side but it’s really a life side is uh dallas willard i’m a big fan of and his you know spirit of the disciplines is one i tend to go back with honestly one that i have probably referenced uh more than others and it’s a it’s a little outside of left field for even my audience somewhat is anthony demello he has a book called it’s either aware or awareness and he’s uh i think he’s a jesuit race dead now but jesuit priest and philosopher and might have been a psycho i think you know he’s a psychologist too and um it is one of the most blatant call you out books that i have ever read a matter of fact i heard about it from tim ferriss the four-hour workweek guy i don’t know i don’t even listen to the guy but somehow i heard i i heard it from him and it caught my eye and that is one that i continue to go back to yeah it’s a hard question because it’s such a disservice because i read so many books and i get so many life-changing pieces for me that i relate to you know over and over and over that to say one book is so difficult that i don’t recommend books a whole lot unless somebody has something and i have something that’s really acute yeah i have a hard time um recommending books but the ones that i go back to um i’m really into a guy named terry real right now psychologist and his books he really specializes in guys and he’s kind of rocking my world i love the ones that disrupt me back to your term i love the ones that disrupt me i mean we all like to be confirmed and i like to read confirming things but the ones that disrupt something and i see something hasn’t been working and you just called it out i just there’s nothing more exciting than i get that in these shows i mean working today with you know talking today with tyler merritt he’s talking about you know race and i’m in the privilege privileged white guy and i have a lot of ignorance and lack of confidence i think in that realm and he really helped me see some different things i’m writing notes i’m right again it’s free therapy yeah what a great job i appreciate that and before i do our little uh outro piece here i think into the camera sell us on self helpful when is it out when is it one of the episodes come about all of those sort of features maybe the book when it’s coming out uh self-help i mean if you go into apple or wherever and type in self-help or kevin miller uh it’ll you’ll you’ll come up with it self-helpful i think self-helpful.co just goes to the apple page but you can find it you can find it anywhere we post on mondays wednesdays and friday is functional friday you may talk with my buddy randy james when we talk really to health and wellness specifically but the mondays and wednesdays and it’s always a serious you’re gonna see a part one part two part three with each guest with each topic it it’s something that i wish that i had in some of the other podcasts that i listened to where i hear this incredible message it’s just one and gone and i want i want more so i get to go and just find the person and get them on my show which is what i’m doing now yeah um but that’s where we are social media same thing i think everything’s at kevinmiller.co or kevin miller ceo on instagram and all that kind of stuff okay title for a book or things do you want to lead to the future thanks i forgot about that it’s called what drives you okay and it’s really looking at honestly drive and we’re talking about marketing it’s a good hook uh people want to be driven and we’re looking at that but it’s ultimately bringing people to question what are their values in these key areas of life and it will probably be out in the spring of next year 2023 okay yeah very cool well kevin miller so nice to meet you in person to go from the audio version of you to the in person same voice it’s true jason thank you so much for making this possible bringing kevin miller your friend on with us today and for all the viewers at home we hope that this was uh impactful in some way if anything i think through the lens of you know folks who’ve gone through some trials and tribulations within businesses and hopefully at the end of the day as well too we can inspire a bit of your journey on the other side of this and also maybe leaving you with some tones of you know things that we have to work through to you know kind of be in a room like this and have this shared experience together so let’s keep hope alive out there thoughts questions ideas opportunities finding peaks at peaksrecovery.com love everybody’s feedback continue to find us on the twitters the facebooks the instagrams all the things the kids are doing the tick tocks above all as i mentioned chris burns our founder pounding his you know recovery heart each and every day on that journey and inviting you all to continue that journey alongside him um and i think that’s good brandon burns signing off here from finding peeks and we’ll see you next time