Episode 116

[Music] hey everybody Yours Truly Chris Burns founder and chief executive officer at Peaks recovery centers we are live at the 49th annual winter Symposium interviewing you already know it amazing professionals but even better humans I know everybody gets excited when we talk about compliance but get ready for this next guest Mike LIF shots a great industry leader and friend talking about all things compliance and how to improve our organizational outcomes check us out all right so grateful to be here with Mike lift shots today with hatch compliance but so much more than just compliance we have a great professional but an even better human in front of us had the opportunity to hear him speak today also sit with him and spend some time I just want to Dive Right In why is compliance such an arduous disconnected issue for so many organizations I think the reason why we see that so often is the way people manage compliance and has always been really cumbersome on the staff MH it took a lot of time it’s very confusing as you’ve probably seen the regulations or the um or the standards that are put forth are not prescriptive right they’re going to say I want you to do a facility walkthrough once a month but they don’t tell you what they expect from you right yeah so you have to interpret that regulation figure out what they want from you and then create documentation around it so one if you’re doing that at at your facility and everybody else is doing something different at their facility there’s no way to compare you were talking about quality right how can you compare quality organization to organization if there’s nothing to compare it almost feel like somebody just checking these boxes that’s it building their own plan to make sense of it yeah and there’s there’s really no there’s no counter like there’s nothing you can do with it and people don’t get excited behind it and something that you were talking about earlier is like let’s just not make this a checking box experience how do you do that how do you do it over at hatch compliance what is the methodology you guys engage with one other thing I want to add to to where to to your point is if you’re a facility or if your program has locations in multiple States you’re required for multiple things from multiple States you you have different responsibilities state to state so one of the things we push on is is national standards there has to be some more uh adherence to a National Standard um so to to go to your question about uh about collecting it your information needs it needs to be easy for your staff to enter their information relating to compliance right they need to know what they need to do when they need to do it and they need to have guidance so that they know they’re doing it right A lot of times there’s just this freeze right I don’t know what I need to do so I’m just going to wait MH and then you wait and then time passes and before you know it you’re 2 years 9 months into a three-year Joint Commission cycle and now you’re finding or creating your information and there’s no value to it right the problem with that is yes you’re checking the Box you have your accreditation you’re not helping your clients you’re not helping your payers you’re not helping organizationally because your staff is just overwhelmed doing this stuff so what we do at hatch is we created a software where we’ve interpreted all the regulations across all the states Joint Commission carf we built them into automated workflows that guide the appropriate staff memb on what they need to do when they need to do it how to do it and then we give the oversight to leadership and management was it done on top of that since it’s a single system your staff adopts it very easily sure and all the data is collected in one place so you can aggregate the data so you’re talking about checking a box checking a box is a waste of time and that’s what people feel about compliance is it’s a waste of time time now if your data is presented to you in a way where you can improve your client length of stay where you can reduce AMA and ATA where you can lower your incidents where you can keep your staff longer with less turnover and train them more efficiently and more effectively now you’ve gone from a box checking exercise to a real business solution that not only helps your business but helps your clients so that’s really the the way our software has been designed and we’ve got a Consulting practice around that as well just because you got to make sure that the software works well and I imagine you’ve been around for a long time not every consultant is created equal yeah and U we we try to really put out the the best message that we can yeah I really love that and it’s actually you know you hear a lot of similar companies kind of marching to the beat of Their Own Drum or similar to others this is the first time I’ve heard from a compliance company that they’re creating a platform that integrates with company culture and not only satiates you know rules guidelines things of that nature but actually builds strength within companies absolutely do you have some examples of where you’ve gone in because one of the things that I see a lot especially with clinicians is this liability stuff right I don’t want to be liable my license you know doctors as well you know they got Dora overseeing and they want to make sure they’re abundantly compliant but then we get right back into this box checking thing and it really doesn’t satiate and it’s not built for distance or sustainable and so what have you seen like coming into programs maybe speaking of like clinical departments in general how have you seen clinical departments change and adopt the idea that like no this is very very helpful like how do we get there it has to start with leadership has to start with leadership if you are if your culture is not a culture of looking for improvement right sometimes people are just okay with the status quo and what they’ve been doing and a lot of times you have leaders and owners and SE sweet people or anybody at any level who’s making more money than they’ve ever made or making enough money to be comfortable and they’re okay with that that is that creates a lot of that um I think there’s also a lot of kind of um old school thinking sure you know I’m new to this industry I’m six years in so I’m bright-eyed bushy tailed ready to go and ready to make a change and then you have people who have been in this industry 20 or 30 years and they’re going it’s never going to change you know we’re never going to go to Val care yeah and and and by the way value based care is here you know medical is requiring fee for fee for performance you know there are this is coming and I think that’s you know maybe another subject but that’s going to be very valuable for for treatment I think and I can see a lot of benefit to it but we do have to kind of get out of that this is how we’ve always done it kind of mentality if that makes sense no we’re really in that position right now we’re really shifting in in seasonal seasons of Peaks and really we want this to be a primary part of our process and be compliant and create what I what I think it does because I’ve seen what it does when it’s not there is it creates a l lack of safety and organizational wellness and trust and so even just beginning to talk about you know cuz for years I was like we’re human centered you know we don’t need to do that which was fine when we had 15 employees and 12 clients you know but now we’ve grown into an organization that’s nearly 100 people we serve 85 clients at any given time and so some of these things really build or speak to an inform safety for the organization absolutely there’s a lot of liability too you know we’re dealing with humans we’re dealing with humans that are struggling you know struggling emotionally struggling mentally maybe not as predictable as you’re going to find in acute care world right so having good processes is imperative and if you want to offer good treatment it it really is yeah it’s almost one of those things it’s like you know I I always use with clients that are coming into care I love to sit down with clients and have smoothies and talk to them about life and you know a lot of these things personally and professionally in the early stages of recovery or the maturation of business in general it feels like a huge step back it’s like now we’re going back to this thing and it’s going to take time but I always like to use that slingshot analogy is like this compliance side if done well is not a step back it’s an opportunity to get present with what is and always has been and then to begin to launch over from an outcomes-based perspective a financial perspective an AMA rate whatever it might be a position that we never been before that’s right and that’s that’s pretty cool to conceptualize it like that because everybody’s like I got to do this thing but what if it wasn’t just this thing what if it and you’re speaking to my heart when we talk about this will improve client outcomes you know this will help families recover these will help clinicians stay safe it’ll keep you compliant it’ll make you more money we’re talking about value based care now which is really really cool because they’ve been talking about that since I got into the field when I open PE we started keeping all the outcomes I’m like please ask us for outcomes please ask us so to hear that’s finally starting to shift that’s beautiful because professionals and general want to know that you know they they have their annual raises coming and potential bonuses and things of that nature and when we have a software or a platform that really speaks to the opportunity to inform that I think it’s really satiating think it makes me feel good well you know what’s funny about that right is there’s a couple of things a couple of issues with outcomes right now first first everybody’s measuring outcomes differently true right we I I will scream from the rooftops about standardization I think it’s imperative to for for Quality right so what’s good nobody knows what freaking good is because they don’t really have any kind of standard measure of it right right it’s not sober time that doesn’t does that inform quality of life no and that’s and that’s big and and there’s there’s value and symptom based outcomes like you know your Gad sevens and your phq9 nothing wrong with that but at the end of the day we’re not seeking treatment because we want to reduce our anxiety or we’re feeling suicidal we’re seeking treatment because we’re looking to improve our quality of life 100% right that’s why we’re here so if your outcomes don’t include a validated quality of life measure I love the recover Capital index I think David’s amazing and and what he’s do is is so valuable we have to be looking at standardized measurements of quality of life and integrating that with the outcomes here’s the other piece it’s huge when you were in high school right your teacher gave you an algebra problem M and you just gave them the answer what did they tell you I want to see you I want to see your work I want to see your work that’s right yeah how’d you get here that’s right how’d you get here so if all we’re looking at is the outcomes and you’re not looking at your procedures you have nothing to look at to understand what’s going well and what needs to be improved that’s what compliance is yeah and that’s why it’s so important and that’s why it’s so important to have your standardized policies and processes because your outcomes mean nothing if you can’t repeat it or figure out what you need to do differently yeah you know what I mean so it’s I I love these conversations because it you know it it makes me think and and it makes other people think and and I love the fact that you are so like open to doing it the right way absolutely you know I think that’s really important yeah you you said I was looking for that the key point we use we don’t use the company you mentioned we use another company I’ll tell you about it after the show and see what you think but one of the the quantitative was quality of life yeah people come in we have a quality of life score we we have surveys each week throughout treatment that inform quality of life um you know I think on our website it’s 94% of people that came through Peaks uh experienced a quality of life Improvement really yeah and so we’ll have to see where does that come from how is it collected that kind of thing but one of the things that it’s wrapped around is quality life and coming from the sud space for years it was like how many people you got 10 years sober I’m like what I’m beginning to learn over the last 5 years is actually that sobriety actually doesn’t inform any quality of life components Mental Health does and then mental health and healing on that side May inform sobriety but it doesn’t have to be there’s a lot of functionality and a lot of success out in our world right now that maybe got missed on that data collection simply because they’re professionals now 10 years later and they have a glass of wine and so I love what you’re talking about with the quality of life thing because it appears to be a metric that we can all get behind yeah well the you know and you look and you’re looking at cravings for example you know and you’re going yeah well once once they get past like the detox phase they’re really not that’s not going to be as valuable right so how are we looking at things more long term and yeah there’s the quality life now also there’s limited reporting on that too right once somebody goes through treatment a lot of times they don’t report much longer than that so it’s hard to get a lot of good data points on that so you know Finding ways to have good alumni relations that keep people in engaged longer and you know and then being able to start that relationship early so that they have the ability to continue to um to provide that information the other thing too that I see with outcomes where it doesn’t the the information is not fed longer term is when you get somebody to participate in an outcome survey you want to share that information with them show them where they were now where they are now versus where they were the last time they took this right because then people can see progress or people can see regression and you know maybe can can make a you know if your if your um alumni team is paying attention to these they may catch something negative before it happens and be able to reach out and and and I think that shows caring and it shows just you know genuine concern for for people and there’s so many people wanted to do awesome stuff in this field like this is It’s a dream being part of this field it really is especially right now mhm yeah there’s a lot of cool stuff coming and it’s interesting because a lot of those surveys we get a lot of people that’s how we identify that they’re struggling maybe it’s an alumni group and and again there’s a more sophisticated way to approach that to ensure that you get those outcomes and you get that data we’ve had so many people saying hey you know Joey’s looking for somebody to reach out he’s really struggling with this depression and then we can oh we can be preventative you know and I’m really a big fan you know I’m through the roof grateful and honored to be so trusted by clients that have gone through that they’ll come back to our program one two and three times but it breaks my heart it breaks my heart we we don’t want to be and I and I think you aligned with this so wholeheartedly is like I don’t want to be in the business for repeat business I want you to thrive I want you to go tell your families about it I want you to experience healing and some of these more granular issues call it compliance actually can begin to speak to that and I never gave it that weight in the past and I think I miss that market I’m so grateful today to be sitting in front of people like yourself that speak to it so clearly and how it can help client care right absolutely beautiful there’s and there are so many so many pull bullets that we could be looking at you know so many topics that we could be looking at for example you know what’s our hiring process right right who are we hiring in how are we vetting the people that were hiring I see so many times and I did a presentation on hiring and Staffing and data around it just the other day and you know who are we hiring this person because we are short staffed and we need somebody or are we hiring this person because they’re a good fit for our organization and what informs that well that’s that’s going to depend on who who you have one of the things talked about the other day in my presentation was about a new survey there’s a new tool out now that is like admirers Briggs oh really for clinical staff and they’re surveying and and having people take this survey before they hire get hired and they’re able to determine rather than just your subjective opinion able to objectively look at somebody’s skills versus their personality and see are they going to be a fit for our Organization for our clientele and like that is where that’s the future of this which is wildly valuable because just onboarding and people leaving that’s an extremely costly process not only costly it affects it affects AMA it affects other staff you know somebody comes in they’re not a fit they Poison the Well and next thing you know you have a big problem you know um so yeah it’s it’s like I said I’m always looking for what makes sense and where this can all go in fact we’re getting ready to start a um a a a research project okay with this this tool that does the um that does the the prehired data collection and the survey and hatch during the the process right and your procedures and then we have an outcomes tool that we’re measur measuring also and we expect to be able to quantifiably be able to determine how the hiring how the processes affect your outcomes and what can be done to uh on the front end to be able to improve that so you’re actually informing on the front end this efficient way to bring people I’ve been talking about this over the last week it’s like what actually informs when when we say I need a therapist we need a therapist like what kind of granular data points can we look at to inform in a very clear way that this person is a great fit here we need the position and it’s because we know that clinical contact happens from this hour to this hour this therapist spends 6 hours here 4 hours here 3 hours here and then that informs this opportunity for a missing eight hours a week or whatever it might be right now and I think that’s what we’ve gotten in trouble to you know we started as a really small business and we’re going up into not a big business but not as small sure and some of these really fite details and this granular data and these efficient ways and metrics that can inform that I almost feel like TJ’s like introducing me to everything we need today TJ I love TJ like like what what he’s doing is absolutely amazing and I love to have him on my show too because like he’s he’s we start out with an agenda and we just crumble the agenda throw it out and start from scratch and yeah I think that the other piece to to what you’re saying too is as a treatment Center understanding who we should and shouldn’t treat right that’s also part of a of a fee for performance or a value based care is we don’t we shouldn’t be treating everybody you know what are what are our demographics that we should be what do we have the best results with and then that also will give you quantifiable information on who you should be hiring you know there’s other things that you could be looking at too um whether it’s your Ama rate right with if you’re tracking am of course but now you want to throw in Social determinants of Health with your AMA right social determinance of Health your um uh drug of choice if you’re substance use Treatment Center uh you also want to throw in uh you know did this did this person leave on their first attempt M second attempt what attempt did they make cuz if somebody leaves on the first attempt that’s usually staff training issue right so by taking look at that who’s the primary therapist who’s the case manager what day of the week did this take place on dang and if and again like these are things that we think about because these are things that can reduce your AMA and increase your success rate and also increase just the overall well-being of the the people that uh you’re working with and um serving I really love that and and and and I love that it’s it’s kind of this company that you created because there’s not a lot of people that get into this industry that are like you know compliance I’m just so passionate about it in a way to speak to it that everybody can really kind of um chew up experience for themselves like so I think it’s it’s wonderful that you’re doing this because you don’t necessarily hire these people within organizations no it’s hard for them to exist it’s take someone like you coming along six years ago and being like I think there’s a piece missing here well you know what’s really funny right um so the way we our company started is my wife Renee is a uh is our chief compliance officer she’s our founder and I’m technically a Founder but she founded this thing and she needed it when she was running treatment centers and she saw what a pain in the ass compliance was in that whole check the box thing and the thing is is Renee is probably the smartest person I’ve ever met really but at the same time being able to take those ideas and me street them so that everybody can understand them that’s not her specialty right but that’s what I do and when I saw what she was doing and and I understand from a total newbie stpoint of what she was doing I was just Flor and I said I have to be a part of this so she said I said Renee I um I’m going to come work with you I had my own business I had several businesses that I was running at the time and and I go I’m going to come work with you and she goes no you’re not I figured that’s the answer she what do you mean mess this up yeah husbands and wives don’t work together it doesn’t happen you know what and and you know six years later we we joke about that all the time and how you how’ you get in were you like honey can I just go I’ll sell you well it was actually kind of funny I said I’m going to come work for you she says she says no I saw what happens when husbands and wives work together he said look everything in our lives is invested in this mhm I see where where your skills are I know where my skills are I’m going to go into your desk and I’m going to take that stack of business cards that you took from this conf from these conferences that you were at and I’m going to start calling people and I made hundreds and hundreds of phone calls but I didn’t know anybody I didn’t know not only did I not know anybody I didn’t know a thing I didn’t know what we were doing more like Q&A hey how are you who you seen the weather actually I used to say I used to say to people hey Bob um you met my business partner Renee at a conference a little while ago and I just wanted to check in with you oh great and I didn’t know what to say any of that stuff and um and one day the head inspector for Texas MH took me out on the road and introduced us to some people introduced me to some people and that was really where where all that happened so things things evolve when you give them air to evolve you know and and that’s kind of how how we’ve done it and you got to get a lot of feedback yeah you know so I love that what a cool story oh my wife and I actually did start Peaks we used to be in the conference Hall here in the Symposium her and I building up she’d set up the thing and uh she does to your point man she does so much so many things so much better than me from an organizational perspective I mean she was at the facility the other day and she’s like Chris this place is really unorganized and I’m like I know but are we can you hang out for a little bit and show me what to do you know but for the viewers and I think this is and and I love that this this turned into more of like talking about what you do because I’m very very intrigued and I think the industry needs to be passionate about this as well but what does it look like for somebody who comes in and wants to utilize hat do AR because I’m looking at it like you know thinking what maybe most people think like oh that sounds really arduous the onboarding is probably terrible the integration probably takes forever and you know we don’t have time we’re experiencing burnout and you know how can you make this easy for us well we start by strapping you to a chair and then we pull out your nails toenails fingernails that’s like the first the first step of the process love it um and then it’s it’s actually much easier than you would think it all depends you know if you want to start the easiest thing is when you’re opening your facility right is you start from the beginning M because really I mean that’s that’s when nothing has been created yet you can kind of build on everything but you know you’ve got years and years and you have to to build so we we’ve really and you talked a little bit about this earlier where sometimes you got to stop take a look around step back and analyze where you’re at so um we had run our business a certain way for several years and then this year we pulled the plug on new sales for a little while and completely revamped all of our processes processes for onboarding to make things easier different tools things like that so really it’s it’s very simple if you want to start the the nice thing about what we do compared to any other compliance solution that you’re ever going to find is we interpret the regulations for you we provide you all the documentation that you’re going to need that’s formatted for your state and for your regulatory bodies or for your accrediting bodies so you don’t have to for any other software you’re going to have to create all of this including all of your training you’re going through 300 Pages oh there it is yeah you know so the way the way it works for us is you start out you have your your leadership and your management goes through some basic processes where we find out what is your state what bodies are you accredited by we also want to learn about your physical plant MH you know do you have a stairwell do you have a generator do you have a bu ground water tank do you have pole stations or commercial kitchen these kinds of things right and then what’s going to happen is that this is kind of the Magic in in all of this is we’re going to find out this information about each one of your locations and then on your next login you’re going to get together with someone from the compliance team in that meeting you’re going to see a compliance score come across your desk your compliance score is your risk score M if the Joint Commission showed up today your state showed up today you would be at 76% and this is why so you have this that you haven’t done you have this that you have done you have this that’s upcoming now you can either do it or you can assign it to somebody yeah and it’s all just automated so you don’t have to you don’t have to remember anything it’s almost like an aura ring yeah you’re ready score oh yeah your Readiness score is low today or go ahead and send it or you need to pay attention to these things you took while to fall asleep you didn’t have this and so it’s very very clear it’s very clear and it just also conditionally formatted so that when you go in there and you say uh maybe you’re doing your checking of your emergency lights right are your emergency lights battery powered or are they hardwired and if they’re battery powered you’re going to get a different battery of questions than if they’re hardwired you’re going to get something different Human Resources is a nightmare for people because every state has different requirements for different background checks at certain staff members and that’s all built in you don’t have to know anything it just guides you if you have a compliance person you’re making them so much more efficient that they can actually be reviewing your data and looking at quality metrics yeah and if you’re a small facility and you just don’t have the bandwidth or the staff to do things then you have a tool that has clear oversight to know what’s there versus what’s missing that’s huge and if you’re a moderate size facility it just makes things so much more effective and efficient um so the other thing too is if you’re opening a facility we’ve got all the audit tools that you need to get ready so if you’re going to apply for a license this is all you got to do I love that too and we have a safety compliance officer but to your point she spends so much time like the other day I wanted to get a specific uh statute within the state to speak to the clinical team because they were worried about a couple things so I say hey we can you look for this data she’s like I just read I’m at 190 Pages at 300 like to your point it’s like that that information is already input in she can do she’s great at what she does too but just be supported through some data and some very and Clarity I mean goes right to it I can’t tell you we’ll spend days sometimes searching for a needle in the Haack so I got a funny story about that how many times do you ask somebody um I need you to do this maybe annual evaluation or ligature assessment perfect perfect example and somebody will say well we’re an outpatient facility we don’t need to do a ligature risk assessment and then you have to or somebody has to go through the regs and find this to prove to them that you have to do a ligature risk assessment as an outpatient facility right it creates friction for the staff it creates stress for everybody on in our system the way it’s built on the ligature risk assessment there are every single regulation that’s relevant to that ligature risk assessment for your state and for your crediting body right in front of you wow so you and it’s all programmed in so when you have somebody say that to you you can go no just click this link and the red comes up with the standard right or with the requirement right there yeah and you know we talk about how do you keep your people happy MH don’t fight with them right right it’s not it’s not who’s right or wrong the information’s just there and I always go back to the beray brown I was just sitting with M who’s beray Brown trained clear is kind like and if it’s clear it’s transparent clinician staff otherwise they go well they don’t think that you’re arbitrarily asking them to do something and and and and that that just goes such a long way you know and as a manager as a leader you you want to you want to work cohesively not and not Bute head so you know being able to get to to give that info is is really helpful yeah I agree and and you know to your point I think it really right away with what we’re walking through now it can decrease burnout and create trust you know a lot of folks are working in these areas I mean we have CL our Clinical Director and sometimes some of our leaders who are literally spending hours searching for the r to be right to inform company culture and having a platform that just speaks so clearly to it and everybody can log in and just check it out and then safety lights you know you think of something like we think of all the big things and it’s like oh the safety lights don’t have batteries and if this place does shut down those not very safe you know and so just thinking about things and as a leader especially an owner operator there’s so many granular details to assess and conceptualize and be aware of and be present with that your platform really speaks to an efficient way to operate so that we can get back to doing what we do best which is treating clients with love and respect and presence and the other thing too is you have the your staff has that it frees up some time for your staff and then you say okay what are we going to do with that time right a manager or a leader can look at that extra time that you free up the staff and give them a little bit of breathing room right give them a little bit of time to I mean our staff is dealing with a lot yeah right and vicarious trauma is real and so by being able to lighten the load a little bit and give them some a little bit of breathing room does wonders with improving just just the the relation of your team another piece of another thing that a lot of people Overlook you know you mentioned the emergency lights is your policies like as a compliance organization with a consulting firm we get called in when the [  ] hits am I allow to curse okay we get called in when the [  ] hits the fan yeah happens all the time M and when you get called into a facility because it’s an outpatient facility and the staff couldn’t find the policy on emergency room visits so they took them to the emergency room anyway but they forgot to call the emergency contact because they didn’t know what the policy was on that and then we get called in because there’s a lawsuit yeah put them in their car yeah whatever there’s all kinds of things that happen so you know making your people aware and accessible and to policies most the amount of policy books that I see done on paper getting big waste of time but being done and thrown in closets somewhere where nobody has access to that big old binder in the corner on a shelf somewhere it’s got dust all over it no one can find it like these are your business plans or you talk to organizations and I really I I can’t imagine that you do any of these things I I I hope you know I’m not uh you know speaking out of term but like if your staff can’t find policies how can you expect them to know what to do and then you’re talking clear as right and people don’t think about these things people also think you know I’m paying them for 40 hours a week who cares how that they’re yeah they’re doing it and and we’re dealing with people and we’re and a lot of times our staff suffers from the same kinds of illnesses and the same kinds of things that our clients do which could make it really a valuable resource and a lot of times we end up stressing our people out I know so you know looking at all of those things um can be really helpful you know this this is an amazing industry and I and I and and the people who are looking to do it the right way are going to be really successful yeah yeah you’re really speaking to me throughout this in just just the season of Peaks and in our 10th year you know a lot of this thing is is starting to make a lot of sense to me now and getting folks in there just to support um from an outside perspective with Clarity um not just Clarity but the finite details that inform not just the way we do clients but the way we write policies and procedures how do we do that the way that we hire the way that we staff the way that we Market um the way that we bring people in are they a good fit y you know many times we we you know bringing in Mission In is pretty expensive to do and you bring an admission in only to find out that that’s not a good fit for your facility causes burnout for staff so it’s like this domino effect that if we can get in front of it right now we can create some stability um and some safety within the organization that is is really fun to be a part of you know I think with with your software it’s like man this is cool it’s very clear we can pull it up we can do it together it can be a group activity I could do it on my own I just really love what you’re doing and I love that you’re seeing in a field that is at times outdated I’m love that you’re seeing so much opportunity for us just to get better yeah you know well there’s there’s so and again this is just my personality I’m the glasses half full guy like and I think you’re the same way yeah in fact a funny story somebody referred to me the other day as um as a um a Labrador puppy kind of kind of a an excited an excited a golden retriever energy that was the word she she said I had golden retriever energy and I love that because yeah that’s how the world changes when you have people who say there’s a better way to do it and I’m going to figure out how to do it and that’s you know by doing things the way we’ve always done it that’s just the enemy of progress you know and and yeah it seems like like whether we do business or we don’t do business I definitely want to get to know you better you know and it’s kind of funny we you know really in the beginning of the conversation MH you were talking about um Peaks you were talking about you know achievements and and getting to the top you know but it’s it’s never ending goal to to get somewhere you know what I mean we’re always looking to get to the next and to the next and and I think appreciating where we’re at true and where we’ve come from yeah gives us a lot of opportunity to to kind of plan for where we want to be yeah it actually speaks so clearly like your presentation your passion speaks so clearly to our mission and vision which is to disrupt the industry through quality of care and when I when we first made that it was almost like we’re just going to be disruptful just to be disruptful but these are concrete examples and opportunities that we can move into holistically um and in a very intentional way yep that actually Bend in that direction so well yeah you know and and and almost immediately you’re doing what from the compliance perspective yeah talk to the team about it they’re really excited I mean wow the team sees it you know when when you can when you can pull up a report and go well this therapist should not be working with people in this demographic and we should be putting them with this person now your therapists are going yeah it makes sense yeah you know you have a a therapist who’s a hardcore 12-step person and you have somebody just looking to get their life back under control and and and and you’re also you know you’re you’re in those kinds of situations all the time where there’s going to be some some clashing and you’re not going to have the right outcome that you want you know so being able to ass those things um I I think are really important and yeah and and and the other thing too I mean look you sounds like you guys are right at the front end of things I’m seeing a lot of interest in the psychedelics and um you know an MDMA and ketamine treatment especially here in Colorado yeah oh I I’m so excited I’ve actually had some conversations with another organization out here who’s doing this cool and we’re going to um uh we’re to get together and start creating regulation around it because we want to keep people from we want to keep people from having a negative experience and and because there’s there’s amazing results that people are having with so much of this new kind of treatment modality and if it if it gets messed up because people are doing it wrong it just creates a black black eyy on the whole thing so I I love I I I heard that you guys are are doing that I’d love to hear more about it most certainly yeah we’re looking to my brother was heading that up a little bit he was part of the plant-based Consortium and was integrated with those folks and so we definitely want to launch that in 2025 but we want to work with people like yourself that are on the front end creating some standardization you know for the process and what it looks like and we want to really align ourselves with those bodies so that we can carry out our mission and vision appropriately and so we’re going to have to put our heads together on that because I I was actually signed up for an iasa retreat in February that I didn’t get to go to but I’ve had some experience with psilocybin from a mental health perspective and for a moment you know I get to be objective with my experience that seems just about impossible in this human body and when I can be objective with my Human Experience I can begin to view it and just view it in a way yeah and not latch into it and connect with it and let the train go down the road but I can be this observer in this holistic way and I can begin to see things and that’s what I love about the plants is they just tell such an honest truth and it can take you right into where you need to be and then we get to kind of explore that and I’m really excited because I’ve sat in front of so many people I don’t call it like necessarily treatment resistant it’s more like trauma resilient if you will right well it’s just a different there are different everybody’s different you know and and yeah definitely I’m not into the labels but but it it helps certain people and certain people that are having a hard time with just doing things you know the certain ways that normal people even do if you’ve sat in somebody front of you that’s clinically depressed um you would see why a tool like MDMA might be able to show them what is potentially possible and create I was sitting with a guy the other day after 10 years of recovery had an opportunity to do some sealess iban and then some integration with some MDMA and he said it changed my life forever I’m going get a little vulnerable with you here um so my mom died when I was 21 years old and and I’m 45 now I could not talk about my mom’s death without crying for the till I was 44 and a half right um last year I did a uh a s sbin trip cool and um my wife and I did it together and hopefully I’m not you know saying anything inappropriate I but we did it together you know we we set the itions we we really tried to do it right and um it changed like I feel different I felt different I can speak about my mom I can speak about how much I loved her how much she loved me you know all of those pieces that I had a like the fact that I can have a conversation with you without getting choked up about it really like 20-some years of all of that and you know one episode changed the the whole thing for me wow and I I I really we uh I talked with this other organization about trying um MDMA out here um hasn’t happened yet uh I heard some a friend of mine yesterday was telling me about iasa that that he had an experience with out here with one of the centers and yeah life changing there are so and this isn’t new right you know that’s the that’s you know a piece of it right it’s not new thousands and thousands of years people have been doing this it’s it’s just that we’re finally getting a more accepting of the possibilities that maybe we don’t know everything right and these in these differently than when we were told in the 70s it’s like these tools can be utilized with reverence and respect and can create catechism growth and change and connection you know I think about you know you you talked about your mom you know my dad passed last August as 62 years old so young guy probably not as young as your mom was but a young guy and I think about my dad his whole life disconnected from a mental health perspective and at the same time the strongest guy I knew but all he had was one tool was a hammer in the world was a nail yep and I think that was his demise and unfortunately he was never willing because he was built in a generation where you work and so he was never will willing to let go of work to go do this thing for 30 or 45 days so he never experienced healing so now in this generation with these tools that we have my dad actually doesn’t have to do that he could have had an experience and so I’m so grateful that we’re going to be able to move forward and help people like my dad from a generation that will most certainly and often times never check into a 45-day program but we can go up to Denver and we can meet with uh psychologist or a psychophysiologist who is doing these things and we can do a day of psilocybin and then the next day we can go in and do integration and to your point I haven’t heard one person that’s done it in a clinical setting with reverence or even in an individual setting with reverence who hasn’t said something like you said change my life yeah I mean that’s that’s what we’re looking for that’s hope and so I’m really grateful that we were able to connect Mike I think we’re going to have a lot of really great conversations I look forward to working with you gaining Insight from you and maybe in in time bringing you a part of this great team that we have here at Peaks recovery look no matter whether whether we work together on you know and you’re using our software or you’re not or whatever that like to me that’s not the point you know my I like our mission is to help the people who help people you know not everybody is a uh is able to be client facing for sure right but we all do our part and anybody who’s looking to do the right thing I I want to work with those people in one way or another whether it’s just you know cheering them on but there’s there’s always just people that are bringing new ideas and hope to to just the future of this is he’s awesome and it’s great to meet you I’m excited anybody TJ introduces me to check it out yeah absolutely that’s awesome I appreciate you coming on we’ll have you on again looking forward to working with you spreading the positive news that compliance can be fun everyone so check them out we are with hatch compliance check them out online what is the website hatch compliance.com easy it’s not one of those like Peaks recovery centers of chic State university.com it’s like oh man that’s a long one you know and and you know if if for people who are not just um who who may not feel the need to to look into a compliant software um we have a podcast as well and um our podcast is all and and I definitely want to bring you on okay the podcast is called hatching creativity cool you can get it anywhere where you get podcasts we also have all on YouTube okay um on the the podcast is all about speaking with people who have dealt with different challenges and how they overcame them or people who help people overcome challenges so I have attorneys who are talking about how to avoid problems with employment law and you’ve got attorneys who deal with billing or you have you know just Senators on there talking about how to reach out to your public policy people so that you can make a change you know different things like that so these are all really you know just just tools um I I do a a video once a week on a thought for the week and how to improve yourself and it’s on L that I do once a week and I’m pop it up and it’s funny it’s a gra it’s it’s our gratitude video I call it right so talk about something I’m grateful for and just some some idea you know personal growth kind of idea and for what it’s worth the thought of gratit ude is like when you can just think of something to be grateful for no matter what your day is like or how shitty you feel if you can find something to be grateful for like every day it’s it’s really awesome so yeah I love that I don’t do it um with the podcast but I do it more on my personal so I get up Instagram every morning I go for about 5:00 a.m. in the darkk I go for a jog and then I work out and then I meditate I meditate work out then jog um and go through this and I just pop up on my Instagram I only have like 280 followers you know and every follower that I have I know personally so that’s the that’s the exchange rate and really it is it’s more for myself um but I put it out there and it seems to be helpful for other people but make a video I make a video on Instagram 5 days a week I’m going to follow you I just get on I say hey I go happy freaking zoom zoom for Tuesday and then I start there and I so I hope everybody is taking advantage of the opportunity to put one foot in front of the other today I looked at the weather before I got on suns out buns out make sure you get your vitamin C today when I was out on my run I was listening to an audio book and it was the the courage to be disliked and what I’ve learned throughout this book and this audio book today is that I suffered with inferiority because I was raised to be competitive with anything and everyone and it created a disconnection in my life that I couldn’t see clearly and created a lack of opportunity to have the courage to make changes necessary but I see that so clearly today I’m so great little things like that and then I just sign off and that’s it that’s that’s it sounds very similar to to my to my videos although I just do them once a week okay cool but yeah that’s I I definitely want to check that out I got I got to find ITW yeah we’ll find each other well I appreciate it Mike have a good one sir appreciate it man yeah that was [Music]
awesome