Episode 103

everybody and welcome to another amazing episode of Finding Peaks your host truly Chris Burns president and founder better known as our recovery cheerleader here on campus and afar I’m joined by our alumni coordinator and one of my good friends Matthew marshan great to have you on the show today bud thanks absolutely the last time we had Matt on I want to say was probably over a year ago around that yeah around a year ago we had Jason freesmon and it was an amazing show it’s just he and I today and we want to talk about something really really important not only for the viewers but folks that are encouraged and make the great decision to check into an inpatient program and we’re going to talk a lot about Aftercare and transitioning and alumni and kind of those some of the specificities behind how we do what we do and why we think it matters so much but first I want to check in with Matt in regards to you know his old role here at Peaks recovery centers was a peer recovery coach he is still one of our peer recovery coaches but she’s transitioned into the alumni coordination role which really we were talking before the show encompasses a wide variety of things and so I just want to touch on Matt’s new role a little bit kind of what he’s working on here at Peaks recovery and then we’ll get into the conversation in and around how we’re walking people through not that just the inpatient process but the outpatient process and specifically integration in the community so take it away that so um I think that like starting off in the puritivity coach role at our IOP or just in general Aftercare um really sent me up for what the alumni program could look like because we’re kind of starting from scratch and which I’m very grateful to be able to do that and not have walk into a a rigid outline that program for clients that transition back into the community after Ohio all throughout that too oh so we get to make it as we go um and that is unique because of the uniqueness of our program as an entirety you know it would be easy to uh say okay we’re going to hold an 8A meeting every Jew thing and we’re going to show up and do a barbecue every three months and that’s what it’s going to look like and we are so far from that in what’s being developed uh you know one thing about Peaks is we always pay attention to what the clients need and not what like 50 years of like so-so is going to say but like what the evolving client is run and so we’re we’re doing that also in the alumni program as well uh just kind of getting outside of the the easy box and and you know interacting with what they’re going through today yeah I love that man it’s such a breather fresh air to sit here and talk with Matt before the show because you know for the first 10 years of my career you know outcomes with a lot of these modalities and specifically some of these older uh research resources within the community you know the outcomes are abysmal we’re talking 10 to 12 percent and so I love the progressiveness of which we approach mental health care because it needs to shift it needs to change we need to have a fresh perspective on the way we’re looking at this because we’re losing the people we love for at a warming rates what have you seen we were talking a little bit before the show you shared with me a couple stories but specifically around how we walk people through even the inpatient setting with respect to willingness because this is a word that’s been thrown around since 1935 to say you have to be honest you have to be open-minded and you have to be willing but what we understand from a research-based perspective today is that those three underpinnings are informed in a variety of ways through Community Support our connection with family community and culture counterbalancing with peers but what have you been able to see and witness a bear witness to and be a part of throughout the inpatient process that really gets people in alignment with the best decision for theirs for themselves so I feel being alone myself and going through the peace program like when I died my first couple days in like I wasn’t really willing I wasn’t really honest and but like I needed time and I needed individual attention to get there because it was achievable and I did get there it just didn’t take me the same amount of time that I took Johnny and more beer or you know um and I think that’s what Peach does really well is that on an individual basis each one of our staff meet the client where they’re at and how long you know we encourage the client to get to their destination and uh on the journey that they’re comfortable we’re not going and pushing the client being like hey you know it’s Wednesday you should be honest by now you know um if it tastes till Friday it tastes till Sunday like we’re still showing up and we’re still just guiding them and giving them suggestions that we’ve already walked through it oh he ain’t no willing to walk through alongside yeah oh and we do that and from our detox episodes all the way to our Aftercare and even Beyond you know we were just talking about um so client said like we haven’t seen anyone yeah and that was obsessively living their lives and whatever success means for them you know and it doesn’t look the same across the board you know um some are doing any you know a program some had we developed their own proof and you know they’re going into they have their therapists that they’ve been seeing for over a year and a half and they have a job and they have an apartment um and that is Success you know uh along the way like were the hiccups possibly sure probably it may not only hopeful yeah because we learned from them oh and so yeah that’s what I mean just what our program does really well and what we’re trying to really harness you know after kicker the IOP especially and the the alumni purpose the continuation uh of dreams and I love that too I love that because I think for a lot of years and I think I mentioned this before but specifically young people have come into recovery where they believe dreams go to die and you know as you were speaking and I know I shared this in group the other day but we’re we’re integrating uh TJ Woodward’s conscious recovery and our curriculum right now and he goes on to tell this story um about President Eisenhower and I’m in a Butch of story no big deal we’ll get the point um but there was a lion that um India it was the somebody high up in the India India now in government or something uh gave this lion to President Eisenhower was a beautiful baked is tiger Bengal tiger beautiful eye but they didn’t have a picture um but basically they couldn’t wait for this lion to come over they got this lion over here and it was in a 12 by 12 enclosure and when they got over here it was supposed to be opened up to this huge Zoo where we have this huge cart for itself but something happened something went a ride where the the lion couldn’t get into its new enclosure for over a year and so that lion for a year circled that 12 by 12 perimeter in figure eights and then after a year or year and a half they get the LIE into this new enclosure and it’s huge and it’s fast and they let the lion out and the lion runs way up in the corner of the enclosure and he does figure eights for the rest of his life until he passes away and when you’re talking about Aftercare I wonder if that’s what young people and mature adults and people of all ages who have been trying the same thing over and over and just hasn’t been working if they come in and we stick another cage over them it’s no wonder why the outcomes are so abysmal and it feels like they’re literally doing figure eights in the same cage that they felt like they were put in and their adolescents or adulthood yeah and that’s so oh unfortunate because like that’s a a great story they go along with the like the reality there’s Al sometimes recovery um has been made to look you know okay you’ve got change off of you you would check this up in the way the depression is kind of simmered down a little bit and boy the expansion I just feel has sometimes been black yeah oh and so I’m like with like an IOP and and Aftercare like this is time for like implementation of what we’re learning are residential but also expaged yeah also like okay let’s talk about those dreams and let’s say let’s make it a roadmap on how we’re going to get there you know because really we don’t need to be confined the the cages lift it and the 12 by 12 is is just there in our minds how do we extend outside of that and like actually get to where we want to go yeah you know it doesn’t have to look like Channel or cater I think yeah can just look like the individual that said that Chronicles 100 and that uh inspiring porn yeah there’s like what works for Johnny doesn’t work for Peter yeah but we’re getting to the same place and that’s cool yeah you shared a story before this I think it’s good for the viewers to hear this and maybe parents of addicted loved ones or family members is like we will you know part is seeing somebody and valuing them and hearing them is actually doing just that and so when somebody comes into our program and in the first couple weeks we say to a young adult hey you know you ought to check out this sober living in this IOP and they say something back like no I don’t want to do that I’m going to do the apartment thing for us to continue to push into that at least in my experience over 15 years of doing that it’s to re-encapsulate the individual but if we can just give them Grace and space meet them where they’re at hold space c value in here that eventually the environment allows them enables them to make a decision for themselves and which is powerful right hey guys in back into a way that might they are behind and did their decision because a lot of times what what humans do and a lot of the pie like we react to beers you know and so when I do when a clan is like hey like I think I’m supposed to get an apartment and I go you know what that idea they knock it right that’s my fear and that’s me exemplating fake is simplify my fear Under The Clash of oh and not meeting the client worth so if I can get on board and be like okay let’s find a way to make that site and then we keep going then all of a sudden they’re like you know what that unless the religion sounds great for like 30 to 60 days yep it’s like cool because that’s always designed to beat like let’s go let’s get stable yeah let’s like uh job search let’s get integrated back into the community with the support system that you can go home to at night because by going from a residential back into the community there’s going to be things that come up whether a guy cuts you off going down the street or you have a bad phone call when significant other orphans uh and going down to a solo Target might not be the best thing but you know what even for three weeks going back to a community summer living yeah being able to be like hey guys I had a rough day today work through that coming to our IOP continue to build um community and gain support in three weeks and you’re ready for that ornament we’re going to help her search for it just like we were when you’ve been residents yeah and back to we’re gonna we’re gonna make that happen and we’re going to do it this way Mel love that it’s it’s such a huge shift from what we’ve seen for so many years because it actually says to the conscious recovery book and the curriculum is that you have what it takes living inside of you to make these clear conscious um and intentional decisions which is something that is I mean for some viewers out there probably no they don’t how do you know people that’s so foreign because we go into Alcoholics Anonymous and again I got my start almost done but it’s like I’m an addict there’s something wrong with me and actually we like to highlight a picture there’s nothing wrong with you something happened and we can get back to that whole Center of what we consider to be wholeness and fullness right and allowing people to get to that point on their own then to your point it can be something that doesn’t feel so arduously one day at a time it could be my process yeah you know I mean silver living isn’t forever and sure you know we need to acknowledge you know and so like there is this beautiful uh balancing that Kane had because when we when we come into the treatment center a large arm is very light back in there it was like shut up and listen and shall be listening to me that’s hitting on my trauma and that makes it shunt out there you know instead of focusing on that and having the staff sit down because it wasn’t and uh and reason and and relate then we can start building those bonds and then we can start making decisions and building a road map one to get to where success means for peach individual pot yeah you know yeah and it’s cool today to know that success is looks a variety of different ways you know I’m sitting with people in group today you know at Peaks we in my opinion we’re the greatest mental health providers here in Colorado it was sitting in a group of half the people in there have never coped with a substance but I always like to highlight to people it’s not about that it’s about everybody copes and everybody copes differently and it’s about finding people or finding coping mechanisms for people that really fit their true genuine authentic self and there’s things in your recovery that AAA didn’t teach you that you came up with on your own that fits you like a glove and I think it’s really important and efficacious to at least allow people as we sit on the front end to see themselves inside their recovery to really be within that not see themselves in mind or see themselves in yours and that’s a lot of what it is too I think for a lot of years it’s like we have a lot of the fear from 1935 and we’re bringing that fear into 2023 and us to say that like some of that doesn’t marry a bit but it’s we have far more resources and our ability to walk people into community-based opportunities is far more than we did in 1935 and I think leaving that fear at the door so the client doesn’t pick it up and continue to stay in that is so important so important 1935 they did have some of the part two yeah more than one or getting the community together and doing something and I get behind that 100 all that oh and the event is something that and you can look different though it doesn’t have to look like a meet your five o’clock meeting or your new news and this can look like a couple of guys getting together football okay a little bit like a couple guys don’t do the range yep um and something that we were just talking a minute ago they spoke to me um and I love working you just thought we’re gonna do it anyway um so you’re talking about like believing in those elves and like would come for me is Ted blessed and I’ve been watching this instead of that show and it’s making but on top of the office door says wait it’s just made out of and that’s what it’s about you know like whether you’re Mental Health primary substance dual diagnosis it’s all about bully it’s all about Mind Body Soul oh and it’s all it’s all the same drinking it truly is it’s it’s about uh bleeding and how do we make your dreams hip juice because we all got it they might just looked it yeah and that’s cool yeah and we’ve been the world’s weird man and it’s hard yeah and we’ve been beat up and you know I I looked at my Challenge and I had a pretty good childhood and it’s still hard I thought that still remember being hard AKB boat yeah he had a mic and it just it’s been not not taught that way and you know like yeah have a good life and like it’s about to be good and it’s just it’s it can be hard too still and so that’s what we really like walking through clients like them understanding that like this is hard but you don’t have to do it all yeah and you’re not good yeah and actually we’re gonna have we’re gonna jump because exactly but yeah I love the fun part too is keeps people around for sure you know and it’s it’s one of those things I think for a lot of times especially when I got into 22 years old I was like this is a life sentence of mediocrity and no fun zero book and it’s just like you know zero yeah and I love that too because your point is very clear I mean most of the families that come to Peaks are great families great phenomenal families Angel is one of the biggest lies I’ve ever folded right because because the needs and this isn’t a show this is just a generational thing is that needs don’t get mad in great families and they’re still creep families still great but the book continues to evolve and I think it’s worth a read in 2023 and I love the fact that you and your alumni team the outpatient team the inpatient team the admissions Team all points in between are really willing to read the new book ciao Jack stay in like you said to have a little biggest ones that I told myself yeah it was like walking into this is when is this gonna be yeah a lot of stuff that I don’t want to do and it’s been the exact opposite yeah when people that I never thought I got to do like actually having friends yeah um not acquaintances but people that I can rely on making rely on me and we have a great time doing that you know I’ll I mean like a lie there was a fun times there while using Church substances they’ve been great well they’re all in really dark towns yeah oh this is sustainable guitar simply just before was it you know oh you know we were talking before of like what does the alumni like what do we try to provide in to enjoyment and having this new light so the way I kind of the viewer is when we go to residential it’s it’s learned and it’s where we’re learning some things we’re starting to like you know my biggest thing when I was swimming through was like well we’re biologists I had never had that one you know or like I think like towards the end of the intro you stop trying them out a little bit you know a little bit but the IOP is like implementation there of like we’re going to do this we’re going to try it it might not work but I guess what if it does it as somebody bounce that off yep and so our IOP is implementation like we’re taking these tools we’re working on them we’re having a safe place to process the outbound and like we’re trying this out and like trying trying to go precise and then and then they go through work or almost three months IOP just start the the rate for the they’re ready to like get going and so when they come into our Alum and they are they aren’t dropped off whatsoever you know like we we constantly reach out to all um we provide uh events that are review unique uh one of the one of the events that I really enjoy is we go to this really cool bookstore for our monthly meeting and it’s not immediate it’s a check-in hang out we did a puzzle the other day you know cool and then we go out into the community and some of the Mets do they we’re gonna go play bocce ball and beating G’s at a park across the street from bad bad bookstore you know and it’s it gets us it gets people don’t want anything excited about what we’re doing because yes like you said life is hard and we we go back into this and we still have jobs and we still have families and we still have all these other things and sometimes we forget about ourselves and especially in the in their homes and so peace isn’t going to forget about you and you shouldn’t forbid yeah yeah I love that at absolutely in my opinion just a breath of fresh air as far as approaches go um something I was thinking about when you were talking um I don’t know if you’re in my group you’re my group last week sure yeah and I think there was a young man in there and his family you know because the the energy behind the field that we’re in is very driven from an archaic view in 1935 it’s very driven it’s driven by a million forms of fear discouragement and and one of the things that they do in those processes that these programs do I think there’s what 13 000 treatment providers something like that 12 500 and I would imagine uh 12 950 of them are 12-step based and so in a lot of these a lot of these cultures and again there’s nothing ultimately wrong with that it’s still good but a lot of in these cultures what happens is we come in and we brainwash the families to believe this is a non-negotiable abstinence-based perspective and anything veering off the past is unacceptable and lacks success and so then we have these young individuals sitting in front of us that have been to these long-term programs that are very punitive top-down view behavior modification yes behavior modification and I’m sitting with the young man trying to teach him about his compassion and he can’t hear it who have you ran into a lot of that when you’re trying to integrate people into this you know again sometimes 12 steps fits but you’re trying to get them a fresh lens to see through and some of the folks that have been through kind of the riddle world of treatment and specifically their families in my opinion been traumatized in a direction and not be able to have any Clarity into the process so when yes Amy comes from that Ellen might kind of separate this a little bit because we you don’t do things the client and there’s the fan and there’s gonna be two different approaches and you’re white like so when you were just talking I’m thinking you know as a people as a society we’re always changing always evolving the drug scene has evolved life and drugs from back in 20 years now where I was them like were way different than they are today and they’re about why are we still approaching this with something that this is 50 years old when like everything else is changing involving but worry continue to to do this like we should also do that and so when a kid and well to give with a client that’s been to six eight and treatment centers and oh and it might have been that way get over the archaic way or they might have had like a little dabble of this type and a little bit under this type then like then they’re walking the hours in it it might be a little uncomfortable for a breath because all of a sudden you know there’s staff members that are out like hey you having to do it today am I like hey how you doing today like right actually Pinterest is like yo bro how’s it going yeah um and from day one from in our detox when you were surrounded in a raptor rail with with love and intention and my connection it’s weird and then it could be alive it can and like people can be like whoa drink Addison what are you talking about like give me the big book and when does you know it was step past yeah um and to explain it and they’re like that’s it but your your individual session starts in like two out yeah and then after that like I’m gonna come to coffee talk with you yeah and we’re gonna process like any kind of a feelings or emotions that come up in your individual and then tonight we’re gonna go and we’re gonna need together as as a group and you know oh and that’s just an American Residential and then as you keep going clients if you hear it time and time again like first it’s weird and then it’s great and then they’re like all bought in and here are Pines that are sick I had jobs and different states and they’re like you know what I’m coming yeah doing sober living just for a little bit and the job like I hope they train for me right and if not like that I’m okay Within Myself and I I I’m coming into alignment that I I know that I can make something happen yeah you know because of choosing them at first and that’s the important part and that’s so yeah when when the spring of the archaic modalities of like how do we treat substance in mental health like we’re far from that my because you gotta choose you first yeah and then we work you know it’s not like but into this box and then all your problems in a different way but if they have known do it again because you didn’t do something about it no yeah it’s doing it right yeah let’s just gotta like we just kind of help you figure out like how do you do it and what you want yeah it’s so interesting I appreciate you saying that they really well spoken on that it almost fits like you know that model and again I found my recovery through alcoholics not six years I’m very indebted and grateful for those people but it really does fit the traumatized individual uh may show up you you you you’re like I know me yeah
you guys can’t and it’s very very it fights it tends to fight Shameless shame that a little bit and it I think for a multitude of reason it can exacerbate Shane unless you feel really comfortable in that environment and luckily um in my situation was a little bit different I had I was absent of family support and so when your app set of family support sometimes you can go into these rooms full of strangers just the same as The Rock Climbing gym but in Alcoholics Anonymous and these people really show you what love and connection is about and that was really satiating for me but there’s a lot of people that come from a lot of different mocks of life where it would be square paid round hole and I think that continues to exacerbate the Trello for sure things are like when that happens like we had a phenopark and as she’s coming into IOP I mean I’m meeting with her and she’s like nah like I don’t want to go to that that’s only cool what are you my prediction like I want to do yoga guess what and then there’s a spot yeah and it’s gonna be the community that I loved about it right but it’s going to be the community that you and that’s and like there’s people that are saying mind goal oriented that you are on yoga yeah and we’re gonna fight and and those are going to be your people and guess what that’s going to be your pro recovery program meeting yeah that you’re going to do hey we’re gonna have to we’re gonna have some some therapies of that we’re going to add some um coming into the IOP and getting uh your group there would be your processing you’re hanging out time uh in and then we’re going to look at whatever else you want yeah and we’re gonna try to make that happen we’re gonna try to make it happen and say what and then oh but yeah so today’s model doesn’t have to look the 99th here what it can look like is Brock and Jim
yeah oh which is really an over art the overarching theme on this is safety it’s like I think parents sometimes they’re not here well that’s scary or no the overarching theme is safety we want to get you where you feel safe so people don’t feel safe in those environments no and I think we need to take note of that in the years and I’m as guilty of this as just any professional you know five years ago be like which Step did you work which one did you not work how did you not hit your knees what did you not do very punitive approach and I would just watch people lack the ability to settle in my presence myself included you know now we get to walk with people and like right on man I can totally see why you came up with that he’s like cool with it you just want him to settle yeah you bring your fighting brings you back to a part of my like my story of um I remember walking through uh think about time it Peaks going to the grocery store the first sight and like later with having breakdowns and anxiety and then now it’s one of my safest place to hopefully Saturday morning so that’s called essential
oh it is it’s like okay like it’s not like that the environment might not be safe for that client and and that’s okay like let’s find something for that client yeah it’s not called um well and I thought I would come up right or we know what okay um do this this and this and it’ll make up time for that and like um I just I just it I can’t agree with yeah you know seriously in me in my experiences no it’s about safe yeah and it’s about ritual yeah and like there’s so much in time I’ve been into that all often you know oh when we walk in here there’s a lot of times there’s still being dogged that we don’t feel safe with thunderstorms and that’s where we have to start yeah you know building that person up and then I find it really hard to do that within um a model from 1935 CS 100 now I appreciate that I appreciate you coming on the show and articulating a lot of stuff we have a lot of really cool alumni things coming up Matt’s heading up we’re doing a recovery concert the middle of August um with KK Fearless we’re going to be bringing them on the show here in a couple weeks so I’ll give too much of that away but what are you most excited about as we wrap up the show what are you most excited about with where you’re at in their current position at Peaks and where we’re headed they think so we’re making from the very beginning really stated like it is almost a blank display and and I’m encouraged not to do the easy route and um uh that’s what I think I’m gonna come excited about is to build something that is so unique in so inclusive to our alumni has a whole uh yeah that’s it and it’s before we even got on there is the most exciting part is having these events and seeing it um quiet so it a year and eight months yeah how many about two years and but also in the same sitting right next to him as somebody to celebrate the banks yeah all in accomplish up yeah you know planted two days and then uh I that’s that’s exciting I’m also excited you know be um attached to some other non-profit organizations and be able to bring that into it oh
in showing clients you know the fun factor that we were like we were talking about earlier about like oh man this is gonna be oh this is oh man going to a Rockies game yeah go to a Nuggets game um going to the the evm concert this weekend um and being able to share that with with our with our alumni and our clients in a safe Manner and be like yo like let’s go come with squirrel yeah and
no that’s Texas electric IHOP and then drive myself and I’ll see you the next day he and I’ll leave yeah well that’s exciting for me because for when I was walking through this um it was the mediocracy that I was scared of that um and it was the structure of 1990 that I did want to do and so with Peaks and what we do and how uh individual and open that we are in building that it just it’s amazing to watch each kind walk through and walk their Journey alongside them because I get to do a bunch of different Journeys and like Jerry sometimes way different approach yeah and like when we just climb on the map into that you get to see a bunch of three points yeah so it’s cool yeah um and also like I said like um building this thing from scratch um making it really intentional built towards the client so one thing that we’re looking at doing too is all the classic on through um a fun survey that we do but it’s so inquisitive about what they want and like what they want out of this um and where they’re wanting to go you know and like and how do we and make that happen for us you know oh because it’s not one just one little size that’s all right yeah and so that’s that’s what yeah that’s really cool man it’s exciting for me too because we’re really in the last few years just on the precipice of this you know just on the edge and we’re moving into it we get the facility um the new men’s facility will be built 13 000 square foot state of the art facility on the ranch which is really really unique environment the only commercial space in Colorado Springs with residential homes in the back and a commercial property up front that gets done at the end of July the women’s program is expanding by a few beds more offices and so just a lot of great things to come as I really feel like we’re just scratching the surface so that people are potentially going to be able to help through this model and this culture so and in that our iobs grow huge yeah I absolutely love it and our reach in our community footprint is so much bigger today you know it’s a testament to you know the entire Peak scene but specifically the outpatient team and the crew that you guys need to work with both up in Denver and in Colorado Springs it’s an amazing group of people that I get to interface with a couple times a month and really really look forward to it so thanks again for coming on the show Bud as always it’s an amazing pleasure just to have your wisdom and insight and really just a progressive way to look at things um in your recovery it’s always just a breath of fresh air so thanks for coming on
all right so my viewers please check us out this Sunday 6 p.m um until next time you can find us on your podcast Instagram tick tock tick tocks are gonna be coming out I’ve been putting them out a little bit they’re saving them up he’s saving a lot but please check us out all of your uh your social media devices until next time peace