Episode 110

we all have many different parts of ourselves that show up in different times and different [Music] situations hello I’m Jason frma welcome to another episode of Finding Peaks I have a pretty cool episode today I have two therapists joining me Samantha pal and Shaina crisp I am really excited for us today to talk about um a therapeutic modality called internal family systems I think you’re really going to enjoy this talk about kind of the basic premise like what is what is that based upon obviously it’s a theory of of counseling um and it and it’s just that it’s a working Theory um it’s not everything in counseling but it’s an important it can be an important um way to conceptualize clients and what they’re experiencing so yeah just kind of give an overview Shane I’ll you um so the basic concept of ifs in my mind is that we all have multiple personalities in a sense um which is kind of funny because that gets a lot of flack in the Therapeutic Community if multiple personalities even exist um but why what ifs says is that we all have many different parts of ourselves that show up in different times and different situations so nobody acts the same in every scenario and that’s because different parts take over right depending on what’s Happening when people say it all the time right like there’s a part of me that believes you there’s a part of me that doesn’t there’s a part of me that wants to go there’s a part of me that doesn’t it is kind of in our vernacular and how we talk and even how we think about ourselves often times yeah it’s almost scientific that we like our brains are modeled so that we have different parts that show up in different times like trauma responses or triggers or um maybe like your high self monitoring so you show up differently for different types of friend groups or family um or I might show up differently for my mom than my dad or my sister or my friend or a partner or something like that and or at work and it’s really cool how we can exist in this flexible personality like we’re not defined by one thing we’re defined by multiple different parts and it’s super cool so you super cool um where what are the parts or what are the labels of the parts and then where where did all these parts come from yeah a question um well there are firefighters managers and those are the protectors and then there are Exiles that they that those protectors protect us from and then there’s our core self which are like the compassionate curious calm creative parts of ourselves that show up when there’s not a lot of stress from what my perspective is of it um and firefighters they are more reactive and managers are more proactive yeah and Exile is a lot of the hurt that we’ve experienced in our life like difficult maladaptive core narratives or beliefs from trauma things like that so I don’t know yeah yeah you co a great jobar and so yeah where do they come from why do we have these three kind of General parts to ourselves yeah so we are born with our core self and intact but then the more that we go throughout life and the more we experience trauma and all these different things the more that Parts come into the system and take over as needed so the idea is that we want to get back to our true self and have that shine through in every interaction that we can that’s part what we’re doing within the therapy room with internal family systems is helping our clients kind of parse out those parts and figure out okay which part shows up when I’m angry which part shows up when I’m at work and helping those parts work towards a better more cohesive system um because also what happens is these parts get polarized and so I might have one part that says you need to go to the gym and diet and lose weight and then I have a part on the other side that says I want to eat all of the cookies in the fridge right yeah yeah yeah so exactly nobody can relay with that except for probably everybody yeah that’s exactly right excuse me so okay and then what do you think causes kind of these parts to begin to break off from that creative The Other c-word Self um that you just described span like where where do these fractures begin to occur from my understanding is that I mean just like what sha says is when we have certain experiences that kind of allow them to Splinter off and so um a lot of times on my clients I kind of pair it with inner child work um because a lot of times they feel like let’s say there was a identified child and so there’s this part of them that feels this intense sense of responsibility and so they always are trying to help others or put others before them or they feel incredible like hypervigilance towards other people’s emotions or behaviors because that’s what they expected to do with their parents um and so kind of working and having them have this really healthy relationship within themselves to talk to their inner child and say hey you’re a kid you don’t have to show up anymore you don’t have to protect me I’m we’re going to reparent you and we’re going to become the front of the bus and drive the bus and you don’t longer have to take the on so it’s pretty cool than keep saying that because it’s yeah well it’s coming through your passion for it I appreciate that what would how would you describe kind of the goal of ifs and okay we have Parts like we understand the premise so we have the firefighters and the managers and the Exiles um okay what what do we do about so what yeah um I would say my goal and doing ifs with clients is one getting them to kind of identify their internal system and even what that looks like cuz everyone’s is different um and also to figure out what’s working and what isn’t working within the system um sometimes we have parts that are kind of working overtime and doing jobs that aren’t necessarily suited for them so part of what we’re doing in individual therapy is assigning that part a new job and figuring out what it could do better can can you give a real practical example like I like I mean I feel like we’re up here kind of describing it and it a little bit going over my head but like so what okay how would somebody present like what I have a part doing the wrong job or an exhausted part um what like practically speaking give me an example of what that might look like and how we can reassign that yeah I think it’s something that we see a lot um in addiction and addictive behaviors um whether that’s substances or something else we have a part who kind of takes over and says say okay because this thing has happened I’m going to come in and do something to change the system whether that’s drinking self- firming using drugs that firefighting car is trying to do something to help with the trauma that has already occurred okay um so with that what we want to do is figure out okay is this helping the system or is it hurting it and if it’s hurting it we can work through therapy and have that part do a different job so maybe instead of drinking this part was to have fun and so we give it something to do that’s fun right yeah that’s that’s interesting you know it’s interesting for me that you know when I picture what a firefighter is it’s somebody that’s coming to the rescue and then when we say that kind of like or maybe somebody’s using Behavior or other sorts of uh behavior is a firefighter like explain that just a little bit cuz that doesn’t sound very positive I guess I think that that’s what I really love about ifs is because it really takes the shame out of it because shame is also one of those Exiles that’s one of part we’re like oh my gosh like I’m an addict or I’m depressed and we kind of Define ourselves by our mental health or our addiction and so has society and so it kind of allows us to accept that these parts exist to protect us and there’s this really cool like saying that there are no bad parts each part serves a purpose and so it’s taking away that tensions MH even if what they’re doing isn’t working in the system and uh for us as a person as a whole they have good intentions they want to help the system M so yeah yeah yeah so it’s is like an internal dumpster fire going on in your brain then there’s going to be a firefighter that comes in to just help you and put it out um and then there’s going to be like you know at work there’s going to be a manager that comes down and tells you okay how can you do your job better how can we adjust this and so it’s a way for our system to be helping us and so a lot of times I think that personally with my clients like I’ve had I’ve seen them hold a lot of sh towards their um drinking or towards their SI or towards their self harm and so we kind of ask them to be curious with that part and say hey so what is this actually doing what purpose is this trying to serve and how can you meet them with compassion yeah and helping them separate from that instead of identifying as you know I’m depressed or I’m an addict giving them new language and helping them actually build a relationship with this part of them instead of identifying it as their whole being like there’s a part of me that’s depressed and there’s a part of me that likes to drink when I’m stressed or needs to numb out emotions and things like that so yeah okay so talk about building a relationship with a part because again that sounds very abstract um what we’re using to build that relationship is self energy okay right so what we’re born with before the whole world messes us up is that self energy that intuitive creative calm compassion um that everybody has that is all covered up with parts so with that what we’re using to build the relationship is the self energy um so in therapy I’m helping the client build a relationship between their core self and all of the parts inside um so it’s kind of like inner child work but more complicated because there could be many inner children because those are the Exiles okay so what we’re doing in ifs therapy is building that relationship between self and all of the parts so that we can understand each part so what I ask the clients to do is step back from that part and see if they can look at it inside um and that shows up differently for different clients sometimes people will actually see things visually um sometimes there will be Body Sensations that we talk about and it’s just all to get them to step back from whatever is troubling them and look at it from a different perspective okay so it is kind of abstract absolutely it’s abstract how how do you know you’re talking somebody’s kind of core self is that what is that what the word is like how do you know you’re not just talking to one of the other three parts if you will not the self part that the question that I asked to figure out um how much self energy is present is how do you feel towards this part um and if they give me anything close to one of the eight C’s of self that we’ve been talking about um the C’s that Samantha mentioned okay yeah calm creative compassionate curious um playful courageous yeah yeah there’s eight of them that we missed but yeah I don’t know it’s just basically any negative Vibes I feel like you have towards AP part that was another part yeah so if I have a client and I say how are you feeling towards this part and they say I hate it I hate this part I say okay can you try asking the part that hates it to step back so we can get to know this part first and then we’ll come back to the part who hates it mhm okay so if they that that works people are like no I hate the part of me that eats eight Oreos before I go to bed right and you like set aside the hater let’s just talk to the person eating okay yeah and sometimes it will sometimes it needs attention first right so we talk to the hateful part first and then we come back to the other part that we were working with yeah and it feels really I always when I talk to my clients I’m like this might feel really woooo or something but just lean into it and lean into it with curiosity and just be playful with it and see where it goes and of course like other modalities one size does not fit all and some clients might be receptive to it and some might not um likea was saying that some will actually visualize Parts I had a client that was like yeah mine is stuck in quicksand and I literally cannot get her out I was like Hey so like what would you need to do to like help her get out and she’s like well I might need to get her a rope I was like okay what part can give her a rope and so it kind of allowed her to unin mesh these parts that were just struggling so hard to just let go and so it really helps when they’re very imaginative and what could happen so yeah and those are the clients that I tend to use this a lot with are the ones who are more visual um and who maybe already practice meditation or have some sort of just intuitive talent that way and I also do ifs with my therapist and I don’t normally see anything um it’s more Body Sensations for me so it just depends on the client I mean it’s kind of like with trema work was because we always ask okay like what do you feel as you’re talking about this right now where are you feeling that in your body or how old were you when this happened or then you could ask the part how old does this part think that you are because it seems like we think you’re like a 10-year-old and they’re trying to protect a child and so and that’s C of building the self depart relationship too is and you can ask the client well how old does this part think you are sometimes they’ll say well this part thinks that I’m five you know and they’re 25 so then we’ll update that part and let them know okay you’re trying protect me but you don’t need to because I’m older than you think I am yeah you think I’m five I’m like 37 do you have clients that are skeptical in this approach just Absolut sure are you skeptical of this approach Jason uh I I was I used to be for sure and I I actually went through ifs therapy myself and I spent a lot of time trying to figure it out first like I try to around probably one of my firefighters or something or my uh yeah just like cuz it’s hard to conceptualize um until you kind of let yourself kind of give over to it a little bit yeah um was my experience with it for sure um how how do you know it’s working or what do what are clients saying after they kind of begin to make friends with their parts like what’s been the response I I can think of an example of that one actually um I had a client who came in extremely depressed and suicidal and she felt like her depression and suicidality working she was um and with ifs I was able to get her to step back from that and actually look at why she was feeling suicidal and why that part kept trying to take over um and by the end of it she was able to actually ask that part to step back or let it know hey I’m okay we don’t need to do this anymore mhm yeah I think that’s really cool because um like with suicide ideation there’s a lot of like shame again we talked about earlier there’s a lot of shame or rejection or I don’t want to feel this anymore and so kind of giving yourself the adaptability or the ability to hold space for that part of you and not hold any judgment towards it it’s like I might have suicidal adiation come up but I can recognize what it’s trying to do and I can tell it okay like remember we we’ve been through this we’re okay and so and I can recognize but it’s not all I am it’s just a part of me yeah yeah how do you know kind of when you’re done with ifs like as a client or as a like how do you know like okay I did it I love all my parts they’re great or I’ve integrated them all and I’m only one self now or how do you what’s kind of the goal I guess I see ifs more as a lifestyle than a morality at points um just because we’re constantly growing and changing and things are happening you know externally and internally so we’re going to have to grow and change and adapt to that um so in my mind we’re never really done work um and I think part of what I love about IFS therapy is it gives people the tools to do it themselves outside of the Therapy Group yeah they become their own therapist basically and their own little system mediator and it’s pretty great because yeah I was thinking the same thing I said I don’t think you’re ever really done with ifs work because you’re always going to exist with different parts um and it’s kind of like a like a solar system where you are the sun your core self and these things like revolve around you and so I don’t think it’s ever going to be just one part means num yeah it was a little bit of a trick I mean I figured it was never going to be done but like that was a great answer um yeah yeah nailed it um have you have you seen clients come back and be like are come and talk to you maybe you know toward the end of their treatment here or maybe you know down the road and I hear something and be like okay I did it like I my Exiles showed up and I was able to just you know honor that or something I don’t know yeah I actually had a um got texted by an old client um recently and she was like hey I just wanted to let you know that it’s so wild like this parts’s work has been so crazily influential it’s like I’m getting to know myself a lot more and giving into more acceptance and curiosity and really just shutting down like all the Judgment that like my mom gave me or that like this family has shown me my entire life and being able to show this kind of acceptance towards myself has been incredibly influential she’s like I’m just still working with my parts I was just like that’s so great yeah so it’s pretty cool yeah it’s kind of like taking inner child work to the next level for me yeah you know because like you said we are becoming our own parent right reparenting that internal system so that the core self is in control mhm yeah it’s pretty cool keep saying that but it is so see is it’s pretty cool or what like yeah he’s kind of Ling um I do
really how would you know if ifs is right for you like if if somebody’s just sitting watching how would they know this is a good approach for them you’re going to say for everybody everybody should do it think everyone can get something out of it and I also feel like you know like you said some people have more skeptical part of another some people are more open and receptive to this kind of abstract idea than other people are um but I truly believe that everyone can’t get something out of it yeah even if you don’t go so in depth because I’ve gone to the place of unburdening Ceremonies with parts and then there are other clients that we’re just at the surface of okay let’s identify that there’s this part that feels silly there’s this part that feels super serious and there’s this part that feels professional and childlike or something else like that and that’s pretty much as deep as we go is just learning new parts about themselves especially if they struggle with a sense of identity and purpose um and then you can also go super deep into all that yeah yeah I mean some sessions almost look like a guided meditation yeah um with the client’s eyes closed most of the time um in some sessions I kind of just use the languaging and ask them what do you feel like is Activa right now what parts are awake you know um I often use the language of what parts are in the living room of your head um and which ones are in the basement you know who’s who is paying attention and taking over and we St yeah that’s Prett cool no but I I do really um I mean I really appreciate kind of what you both are talking about too is that it this is pretty abstract uh some might think weird or things or an approach that um maybe they don’t entirely think through but it also seems like there’s some real practical application that people can kind of walk away from it and be like okay as I’m as I’m sitting here I’m having some sort of reaction that maybe seems too large for this situation or maybe doesn’t match the situation quite like it should or I’m I’m in a social setting and I don’t want to talk I’m like frozen here like what’s going on it gives kind of some tools to be like okay I know I have a process now for thinking these things through and it’s through this internal family system modality is that a fair summary yeah sure okay yeah awesome I think it’s really cool because oh my gosh I keep saying that no it’s it’s boring and ridiculous there’s a there’s a part of me that’s coming up that’s just telling me to stop saying cool um there’s a part that really thinks it’s cool that’s like inner critic time you said that yeah like shut up talking about inner system yeah with trauma there are narratives that we hold on to so like I’m not enough or I did something wrong or I am not attractive or I am out of control and and so by recognizing that there is a part of us that’s holding on to that instead of being it defining us and so let’s say we are feeling activated in our chest and we’re like oh my gosh I’m never going to get over this I’m never going to stop feeling anxious or depressed and it’s like well you have you you’ve had the last 10 minutes you’ve been super cheerful like there’s obviously multiple different parts of you and so it’s bringing us kind of awareness that their entire life is not dictated by this solid part of their identity and it’s really empowering I think so I think that is a great way to kind of land this topic um I want to thank you both Samantha sha thank you very much for coming on I know there’s probably part of you that might get anxious in front of cameras and and sitting here um and probably part that it’s pretty exciting um and to summarize uh Samantha this is a really cool approach uh for therapy um no I don’t think so okay I don’t know why you would say I really appreciate this thoughtful discussion about internal family systems thank you both thank [Music]
you hi thanks for coming to this super cool episode of Finding Peaks um make sure to check out the social media like comment subscribe all that fun stuff and check us out some more