Episode 87

welcome to another episode of Finding Peaks I’m Jason friezma Chief clinical officer here at peace recovery co-host Chris Burns president founder hello my friends Peaks recovery centers and then I Our Guest today Nicole Gordon uh level four CrossFit instructor and part of our movement team uh act activity direct what did you call it I’m sorry activities the director of fun um and I’m really excited to to have you on here uh today um I mentioned in our last episode Chris when we were talking uh just about how we’ve been working on um enhancing and and updating our curriculum and I think one of the most exciting things we are doing is uh integrating movement right we initially I think we’re throwing the word CrossFit around a fair amount um and that has uh some implications to it and it can be a little bit intimidating uh to people so we we really just label it movement um because that’s kind of what it’s about so um Nicole what what brought you to Peaks like I’m really curious about your origin story well you don’t know my origin yeah I guess I mean I suspect it involves Dan Hugo but yeah yeah I mean yeah I’m super I I’m very grateful to Dan in in many ways Dan has changed my life but yes he Dan and I met about a year and a half ago when we were both at an event for Redemption Road Fitness Foundation um I’m actually the executive director for that non-profit and we were both at an event and Dan is just um a very large Larger than Life human being and anyway at that event I made sure that I introduced myself and just stayed in contact with Dan he worked at the Phoenix at the time and then transitioned over our time you know volunteering together at the Phoenix as well transitioned to here at Peaks which he was super pumped about yeah um and just kept having conversations with me about it and I was he was just like telling me his vision on on movement here and um and as always I mean when you’re around Dan you’re just like excited for him yeah just because he’s excited right and um so he just uh I don’t know the story is like he he brought me in yeah right you got to meet my friend Nicole yeah you’re telling me I got to just meet all the people there I’m like okay so we go in with my mask and you know say hi to everybody which was and everyone’s you know super kind and we’re at this big conference table and it was like okay see you later nice to meet you and then um maybe a few weeks later two or three weeks later Dan said I want you to come in and talk to Brandon and um which I must confess uh at the on that day I didn’t remember exactly who Brandon was like title wise the door was already open I was sort of nervous because I didn’t really know what the meeting was about sure other than just another talk I thought we were having sure super casual he’s in shorts I’m in probably workout clothes too um and we just had a really great discussion and then he’s like well I’ll uh let you know what the offer is and and I’m like oh oh we were we were having an interview wow I didn’t I would have been nervous I don’t know having an interview I think this looks great um and then I see the plaque on the way out and I’m like yeah um so that was nice that’s really funny story yeah so you know coming in I guess I kind of want to ask you like what what ideas you had coming in and then maybe how that’s met with reality we were talking a little bit before the show like that it’s it’s kind of different working in a gym where everybody’s kind of comes in and eat full of eagerness and ready to work out and all that like how do you how is expectation versus reality um so let me start with my time with Brandon in the office was actually a little bit more I I felt geared towards like the nutrition side because that’s what my degree is in um and so I I think I left there thinking like maybe I would have a contribution more in that realm maybe be an assistant to Dan in the fitness realm but potentially have more input on that side so I think that’s and there was no particular reason other than that subject came up a couple times so I think that’s just where my mind went um but after being here it I think initially it was just we weren’t really sure what we were doing other than we were doing some Fitness stuff with clients right and so I think Dan and I drawing Upon Our background um you know with various people that we’ve worked with over the course of our time um I’ve owned a gym in a Pat in the past I worked for the CrossFit the company for for 12 years and so my experience with different types of people all over this world I felt really like at ease just being with new people and teaching um but I think I think this shift was for me anyway as I was alluding to earlier is just recognizing that not everyone is super excited and enthusiastic about movement so my shift in my mind went from like oh I’m just going to teach people how to move to oh wait I have to inspire people to want to move and that was the change yeah and so then in my mind the education side while there’s always education around movement and fitness it just it just shifted where the education was coming from so yeah in the place that it really comes from it’s almost like it anchors back into that um that quote that I stole from Theodore Roosevelt on the front end of Peaks nobody cares what you know until they know that you care oh yeah and there’s that shift and I’m actually drawn to a time one of the first classes I got to do with you and Dan and at the end of it we were all kind of emotional um and maybe you want to tell the people like what was that about because you’ve been in a lot of places with a lot of different people and a lot of integrated moments and spiritual moments what was it about that inflection point of like your career and you as a human in that moment with the women over at Brook Park that day gosh I don’t I am I am emotional yeah any way anyway and so potentially just being in that moment and recognizing that they were inspired inspires me like it’s just this gift when somebody says Nicole and not with words right when somebody’s basically saying in in their body language and in their um their willingness to participate even though I I know it’s uncomfortable when somebody steps into you and says I give you this gift of trust that feels emotional to me right and so I think probably it was that at that time um um but there’s a flip side to that too when when you when I recognize that maybe I haven’t earned somebody’s trust yet and there’s it’s like what am I what can I do what can I change how can I be um and I think sometimes if if there’s something for me to work on is it it I can do as much as possible but I can’t take on you know every part of that I just hope that at the end of their time that in some small way they’re just at least intrigued a little bit and I love that there’s Grace and compassion in there too there’s so much because what you’re talking about is you know let’s talk about from a depressive disorder perspective I mean folks that struggle with depression they’re literally their coping mechanisms telling them not to go to your class yeah totally everything in them is like stay away from Nicole totally because it’s just part of that process and part of that mental health disorder and so for us to be able to move in for you to be able to move in and bigger than that like this is what therapists do but you do it well and so does Dan you hold space you meet people where they’re at and that’s just this trauma-informed side of you that you’ve had ever since the moment that I met you that I think is really that kind of Link in the chain that’s missing and a lot of programs like this with physical fitness and things like that involved is that meeting people where they’re at is a really special thing to do an easy thing to say but a much more special thing to do and you do that really really well thank you thank you I appreciate that it’s um I I’ve been in that space right the depressive space where you don’t want to work out you don’t want to move you don’t want to do anything I’ve watched it happen in in both of my children for various reasons and so I it’s really hard because you want that you want to pull them out of that so bad but I do get it you know I do understand that and so um yeah I just hope that I hope that any time that we’re with anyone that that nobody feels pressure like they feel like they have options they feel like even part of those options are just showing up and being there and being like that’s the best I could do today was just hop on in and show up at the space you know so well I think I think what’s so interesting too is you know as we brought you and Dan on um we pretty intentionally put you guys on the clinical team which is I think an interesting spot yeah uh to be on because um to Chris’s Point like you guys can hold space and there aren’t a lot of people that sometimes can just sit with another person in their own darkness and not have to necessarily do anything about it but just kind of sitting there with them and and holding that Sacred Space I think can be uh incredibly valuable and and you guys have been great at just kind of fitting in uh with all of us uh kind of Half Crazy counselors um as we as we kind of do our thing wow it’s a wild world in here yeah but like like it is it can be an intimidating uh spot to be I think um because we we do talk in very emotional terms and and um you know and we carry a lot of you know emotional weight on our shoulders and I and you guys um you know you have this physical element but you carry that emotional side uh incredibly well and have just fit in beautifully on the clinical team um and I think that’s a good segue too to as we were kind of revisiting the curriculum um really learning how to integrate movement um with intentionality right I think there’s a lot of programs um that certainly offer activities and that sort of thing but I I don’t know of any other program that is that has sat with an equal voice at a curriculum meeting and said um these are the 10 basic tenants or whatever of of movement that we want to bring to this and how do we begin to integrate um stamina and coordination and speed and accuracy and Agility and endurance how do we incorporate those things into a curriculum when somebody’s working on Grief how do we how does movement combine with that and I’d love to hear kind of your journey on how integrating that is is going so far I guess yeah I think so a couple things I want to start with one list
ever were to wear to Google different like physical skills lists there’s some that are longer and shorter out there this list was actually created by a Jim Cauley and Bruce Evans so this is their list it’s important for me to acknowledge that and number two CrossFit actually borrowed this list from them and I borrowed this list from Crossfit right and so um the reason that we like this list so much is it is all-encompassing like when you think about a human being who has capacity across all of these skills physically you’re like oh they’re they’re set up for Success right um and and any one of those I for me personally and and when I think about life there’s not one of them that I would say like I don’t need that you know it’s like they all they’re all equally important um I think the reason to me when I thought about this list in terms of physical skills and my experience with Fitness um there is so much that’s been tied into my mental health with regards to these and so much I’ve learned meant for like mentally that I’ve that I started with physically and then I recognized that like oh wait this these things translate these things carry over there’s not one without the other because if you’re going to practice one there’s still a brain component to it you know and then to execute one well let’s say physically there’s a brain component but then there also must mean that there has to be some kind of dedication or determination or something behind that that allows you to then do the other things that life demands right the mental things that life demands and so that was kind of like the birth of our idea Dan and I’s idea because we’ve had different experiences but similar in terms of the way that physical and mental have combined in our lives and I think right now it’s just um maybe I think recently just having that meeting and kind of explaining how we see these tied together in into mental health was finally what like pulled it all together I think it would probably be great for you guys to tell me because there’s probably there could be some assumptions here but I think in my mind um Fitness still felt so separate from mental and and maybe once we finally had this conversation about how they actually do coexist and actually need each other that it finally kind of came together what I what I love about these these kind of core tenants if you will a lot like what I what I was really intrigued about in the 12-step process and the infancy of my recovery is there’s sustainability built into every one of those words and so it’s not there’s not a number there’s no numerical value it doesn’t say like when my waist size reaches when my weight reaches when my arms are this big when I can run this fast it just keeps you coming back for more so there’s no Finish Line and in that effort and in that culture you can really begin to kind of plane the tooth because never I’ve never had so much endurance before mentally physically and spiritually and emotionally that I can’t come back and get some more and I can’t grow that’s what I love most about it is I think most people can find their way into each one of those tenants um with compassion and with connection you know that’s really really special and when you know when I started my fitness journey when I was a freshman in high school we did a program called bigger faster stronger and if you weren’t a part of the thousand pound Club but they didn’t teach you how to get to the thousand pound Club it was just about put weight on your back and push it out right which I think is probably more counterproductive today we’re at least realizing it so it’s all about numbers all about this stuff so you get to these numbers and there was no sustainability nobody would carry their routine forward right yeah that’s why I really really love about entrenching behaviors and I’ve been using that word a lot lately and trenching because when somebody’s in inpatient treatment I mean they say you know from zero to five you’re developing it just when you’re coming into inpatient treatment and we’re getting your worlds quiet the opportunity for growth into an entrenched just a normal movement routine and carry that Gem of a gift with you out into your community and be infectious with it is a really big opportunity here where I haven’t felt that before in past Peaks culture and I certainly haven’t felt it in my experience working in the field and being a human I’m kind of walking through my own early recovery experience so it’s a breath of fresh air I’ve been part of I’ve worked out a lot a long time I don’t mind going into gyms but going over to Dan and Nicole’s class if they didn’t change the times I mean I was planning to be there every week because it’s just special I’m like okay oh I knew I was getting that wrong you know just being present for myself and that’s what this stuff really really uh engages us to do yeah and I think I think would I think we’re still at the front edge of really realizing the benefit of this and I really um I know in that curriculum meeting like when you presented this list it all clicked into place for me yeah um because because there is so much crossover this isn’t it’s easy to read this and be like you know flexibility is can you touch your toes but it’s like there’s emotional flexibility there’s spiritual flexibility there’s same with power same with speeds and with uh accuracy and Agility like all of these things are um pretty fundamental actually to our curriculum we just probably would have never listed it in these words right um and so you know to kind of you know maybe walk through a grief week and do a grief week if you will and and um and walk through that it would have it also how do I Endure when I’m physically working out as well I think is I don’t know brilliant right around brilliant yeah it’s so cool that you guys are working together because it’s like what we’re learning throughout this um I’ve been saying this quote a lot this week Bessel Van Der kolk’s book the body keeps the score trauma in his one-line definition says to not be seen or known so so we’re working with a lot of people that are coming in not having been seen or known not never mind the physical activity right and so to really move this into the clinical realm see we can see that some of these behaviors are informed through my process from 0 to 17 and we can go back we you know we can integrate with Nicole and say hey so and so is not moving really well he’s like oh because he had an experience like me on the soccer field at four years old where his dad came up and said you never get injured yeah right and so now I can’t take care of my mental health and Sport this is this beautiful recipe that’s built again for sustainability and for the clients that come into care it’s just it is so awesome and the reason I know it’s so awesome is I’ve been doing this quite a while and it’s really awesome for me yeah you know yeah so I just know people coming in they’re loving it I get to sit with each and every client that comes through Peaks individually for a smoothie and just say how are you in a movement movement is a huge part of that answer
we were joking like it it took us a while to call this movement oh yeah it honestly it was the most benign word I think that we could think of that would be the least triggering for people because everybody moves to some degree um but yeah because when it was a workout or whatever like it definitely bumped into a lot of resistance around yeah and the CrossFit was like
um but but really getting this movement thing uh has been I think pretty pretty fantastic honestly and and I I do appreciate your feedback I’ve been reflecting too um because in my eight years at Peaks uh you know I spent a lot of time as as just a primary therapist and and going on Hikes with clients um to your point like I’m usually pretty good about building engagement with people I’m like everybody would try everybody would at least give it an effort and go as far as they could and just that accomplishment too I think um can be so powerful and and um and you know it’s almost like a physics issue where it’s just difficult to overcome inertia like it’s difficult to go from not moving to just get moving a little bit but usually then momentum I think can really build relatively quickly and I think we see that pretty regularly as well um and kind of the last thing I did want to touch on too is I think also um as part of inviting you to the curriculum meeting as well as like we’ve really realized um when people come to Peaks whether it’s for mental health or substance use or both they’re really out of relationship not only with their families or or whatever but they’re at a relationship with their body like they’ve been ignoring their body they’ve been poisoning their body or or ignoring that like they need to get moving or get sunlight on their face or or whatever for quite a while and um and I think that’s a core component of what what you provide too is just how do you how do you get back in relationship with your body without kind of that shame or without judgment and that sort of thing that I think is so powerful as well Chris do you like as we wrap up like how does that kind of match your own personal experience too with kind of re because I I even think I’ve watched you get into a different relationship with your body in the last few years as well that’s why I’m so excited yeah it really it just it speaks to me I mean I grew up in sport playing basketball playing football I’ve always been really really active um but I never knew I could be mentally healthy within that um and be safe within my own body and know my own body and be introspective and um on days when I’m not feeling as well take some time off you know can I put myself first in my own treatment plan you know I say that oftentimes and for whatever reason the world’s energy had kind of moved into me in a way and put me like third on my own list and so it’s really been a breath of fresh air over the last few years I mean people used to ask to work out with me and I’d be like are you kidding me there is no way I could work out with you I’d have to take my headphones out we’d have to talk that would be present yeah you know what no way same with the different activities that I used to do and you know it’s started out with bringing Kezia his daughter into the gym and she was in there for six months and it I would say it changed my life for the opportunity to just be there with her and to walk through this and do this in a mentally healthy fashion where we could connect throughout the process be mindful of what hurts examine it move through it take days off Connect and so it’s been an absolute gift of my recovery is this real holistic opportunity we have to sustain our recovery today and I think for a number of years at least for me anyway and the people that we’ve served have felt like this industry’s come in and put a box over everybody’s head and they’re like oh well I certainly don’t want to die and so I’ll do all of these things and I think a quality of life has been abysmal and now with these new opportunities for movement and to integrate with Core Concepts like this and the curriculum and potentially 12-step in Dharma we just have a plethora of mindful opportunities to grow in our recovery and know better for me than this holistic approach that y’all are kicking it’s amazing so I think what’s really fun too is that over um over time you know everyone’s introduced to each one of these and and inevitably something’s going to speak a little bit loudly to people more than others but if they’ve never experienced it then they don’t even have the opportunity to go like what what does speak to me what does make me want to move my body is it more this is it more that and so um just giving folks an opportunity to experience something for them to go yes know what feels right what doesn’t connecting to self and going like all of these are important but I could spend a little bit more time here because I like it and I know the difference between what I like and what I don’t like in my body now you know and you brought it up so simply on the front end too it’s like can we really get some some meaningful goals you know in 2016 when I was doing what I was doing I wasn’t in a great mental HUD space and I wasn’t in a good physical space either I you know I found it tough to get up off up and off the ground with my young newborns I was like I’d really like to do that better and I started moving a little bit more outside hence running a little bit jogging started off with slow fast walking and things like that and so I think when we can define a more proportionate goal again that sustainability and the quality of life and happiness that consumes us as a result is so cool yeah you know I would invite everybody in my neighborhood to come in my garage and work out with me now that but they’re just like dude okay do your thing
probably I appreciate you coming on Nicole and really uh shedding a little light into into this movement component that we are offering here at Peaks and Chris is always it’s a pleasure uh thanks for coming on yeah thanks for having me and with that we will wrap up this episode of Finding Peaks uh follow us on Instagram Facebook uh find these episodes on uh wherever you get your podcast Spotify iTunes um and Chris Tick Tock we’re pushing out some great tick tocks Coover and I in the back are on some really good meaningful stuff just Simplicity some good stuff to wake up to in the morning so check us out check us out