Episode 139

I don’t care how you got here or what got your foot in the door for sure you but if you if you put the work in it’s going to change you’re going to know why you’re here you’re going to know you need to be here you know is it pain is it Brokenness is it it’s authenticity gosh and it’s magical but for me it was just the mental health side of the of of Peaks that kind of got I mean it got me sober when you turn vulnerable that’s where your authenticity comes out right [Music]
hey everybody and welcome to another exciting amazing and unique and special episode of Finding Peaks Yours Truly president and founder Christopher Michael Burns joined today by my co-host and co-founder Robert Patton III as well as our guest Adam joerger alumni friend welcome grateful to have thanks for having me welcome guys how you doing today my friend it’s good seeing you well too it’s good to see you man we just spent some time as we do before the episode just connecting man it’s been about an hour and 5 minutes and could just sit here and and talk in an authentic and connecting space with you um because that’s where I met you um at Peaks recovery in 2022 that’s right um and Bobby and I were talking about it with you a little bit it was the first time we had ever had a hug that was longer than 20 seconds and it was wildly uncomfortable but I have gone forward from there and exchange that oxytocin release with so many people and um so grateful to have you in the studio so grateful to call you a friend so grateful to have you in the community spreading the good word of recovery um before we get into where we’re at today I wanted to talk a little bit about how you find found Peaks what was going on in your life as a professional a human a father a husband a brother a son kind of what was going on there for the viewers and maybe some people that are sitting on the edge of that phone call and sitting on the edge of that courageousness or that courage that it takes to pick up that phone um maybe walked them through what that was like for you and when you did pick up that phone was that experience yeah it was it was um crazy for me that I was going to put my put myself in rehab I never thought it would be be that guy I don’t know if I guess a lot of people don’t think they’re going to go to rehab but for me it was a a a time in my life where my wife and I were getting we’re kind of moving apart a little bit and we moved so far apart where um my my coping mechanism with some of the things that were going on were drinking so I was drinking um you know I would drink like five six beers a night maybe I I parted a little bit harder but my wife started seeing that and I was hiding it from her during that time and she gave me an ultimatum you either go to rehab me you you figure out your stuff or we’re getting into separation and it wasn’t a divorce I was like well separation ational you know she’ll see all the progress they’ve made and things like that but it happened um right before Christmas on January 22 where she said um if you don’t if you don’t go to rehab I’m leaving you completely so it was kind of a you know kind of a wakeup call I’m going to lose my wife and I’m focusing on partying and drinking and and funding his other outlets to um to cope with what I was going through and um it was like nothing for me I don’t want to lose my wife and probably am drinking too much and I’m not um doing anything to help myself stop so um just going through the computer and looking at reviews and just kind of look at demographics and Geographics and what you guys are you know what you guys serve us at at the you know at Peaks and um called a bunch of other ones um and I saw some reviews on you guys you guys were the second call I made okay and it was it was tough for me to make that call but everything just felt like it was working out as the universe wanted it to right first place didn’t look that cool I don’t know maybe I would have went in there if they had they had beds Peaks came up had beds you want to come in today and I was like today I’m going like moving I got to get packed and stuff but you know getting into Peaks and and knowing the type of care you guys use and all the awesome reviews you get and M for me is um going back to to the idea of like labeling yourself as like I I never say like I am an alcoholic right right or I am a piss I’m pissed off or I’m angry it’s like just you are you’re just having those feelings today and um coming there and being able to get into the I don’t want to do the AA stuff I just didn’t feel like that was a good fit for me just from past experiences but for me it was just the mental health side of the of of Peaks that kind of got I mean it got sober but just like the the things like who would have thought like sitting in a bathtub I don’t take baths who would have sat in a bathtub for 15 20 minutes and just turn all the lights off and meditate and who would do all these mental you know mental health things like pray and and do breathwork and exercise and do all these things where it wasn’t it wasn’t just coming into a Peaks being like AA you’re not using your phone this is on lockdown is it was more of a comfortable environment and supportive environment to get the help you need right and not only the help you need to get sober but like find out like what’s in there that’s bothering you right and for when I was at Peaks and I heard stories of guy saying you know they were raped and they were like I’ve never even told anybody this Adam and I’m telling you this like I’m bisexual or like whatever the case may be it was just an awesome place to just come in and support each other and you know having a group where you know we had a lawyer yeah and there he never drank or did drugs in his life yeah but he was he was a lawyer that was out of his mind depressed and he came to Peak he wasn’t a drug Al drug or alcoholic he was there for mental health right wildly successful wild wildly successful um and for me I wanted that space to not go in and be like you’re a drug addict you’re an alcoholic you’re doing this it’s like what what is bothering you and how can we correct that mental health so the tools that were that I was expecting to go into you guys had you provided them right yeah so it’s like s doing weird [  ] I don’t even tell people I go to I went to rehab I said I went on a retreat went on mental health Retreat yeah right taking baths getting up and doing doing yoga and doing all these different things was um what got me sober and what got me to the spiritual journey I’m in today and I don’t if I didn’t go to Peaks and I didn’t get that ultimatum from my ex-wife now I’d probably just still partying and you know hanging out and being in the situations I’m in right now struggling yeah you know there’s other ways to to kind of digest that yeah for so many of us it’s external motivators that that get us in right and then we get in there and if you arrive in a place that where you’re meant to be and and for some people Peaks isn’t you know where it’s meant to be it’s it all depends you know absolutely it’s about perspective and willingness and acceptance Peaks works if you come in and you’re willing and your practice practice acceptance I think then it it it works for you you know and if you want to get sober yeah and and and most of us I think we’re um there’s a lot of external motivators that get us in the difference between success is is when you get yet there becomes internal motivator I know absolutely such a great Point too and and your point like for the viewers like and we were talking about this before the show I just wish more people would be able to see quality of life issues see them be informed by some mental health care and see their opportunity and take the shame off their back because you know you you just described a what some people would consider a problem Drinker um professional six figure income doing the thing father do I have a problem sure maybe am I alcoholic I don’t know no but you made this decision and it was external motivators that that got it done but I want to to be clear for people is like it doesn’t have to get to from a substance driven perspective yeah what we think we need to see in order to get the help and the tools necessary to not just survive in this life but Thrive and because of that courage and because of that commitment that you made you all in that setting were able to Foster something really really unique you and your peers what was that and why is it so important and does it matter today yeah and I think a lot of people you talk about like the people you hang out with today or like whatever you drink with them or you go outside and have a cigarette with them or whatever whatever the case may be um here it was just the brotherhood like I’ve never had such a connection and just go on to Peaks where I felt so comfortable crying like like all I want to do is cry all day long right it so encouraged like cry cry like you see these big guys like you would never think they would cry and these all I’m so sorry but I think being in that environment where you’re with other addicts and you’re with other people that have mental health issues yeah where you can all relate like well I’ve never smoked meth for 5 days but you know I smoked pot I smoked a pound of pot in a week or whatever the case is right but um same yeah it’s the same thing we’re all in here for kind of the same thing right but it was cool to just have that when you turn vulnerable that’s where your authenticity comes out yeah right yeah and it was just people to give you that love and support you know some of these people weren’t supported to go to rehab they don’t have any support like I don’t care what you do right but then you have a lot of guys like we were with that had support and wanted to get better for their for their you know friends and family and I think that’s what it was for me right I wanted to go get better for my wife didn’t work out um maybe the universe did for me what I couldn’t do for myself I know it probably shouldn’t have been with her but just having that support oh you’ve been divorced before what is that like hey you’ve got a DUI what is that like just just to have that connection and the comfortable um space to kind of cry for some in somebody or like do a coffee talk with somebody it just I mean it’s so valuable you know it’s it’s not like go you know you’re done with your classes go play ping pong for you know the rest of the night or something right it was more of like structured you got to be here at 6:00 for this meeting you got to be here at three there’s accountability which a lot of people don’t have right yeah a lot of drug addicts and and and what mental health issues something they don’t have right so it’s um just a love and companionship and just the actual program right we loved all of our all of our um psychologist and things like that I mean you had some of the best psych like you know pamma and things like that it’s just like unbelievable man she was Buddhist I talk to her about Buddhism all the time it was just cool getting all the spiritual thing but just connections even outside of your your peer group you know you get relationships with nurses and it’s like you’re a family like I I just belong to a Peaks right those those my placeat you get to Foster that in other relationships and other fellowships and communities it doesn’t have to be we talked earlier Landing in Peaks allows you to get vulnerable because you’re around like-minded people who are going through the same thing who feel just as lost just as broken you know just as confused and so it’s easy to get vulnerable you know and and not easy but that’s that’s generally where it happens that’s why the group setting is is what it is you know because you’re around individuals who different walks of life different issues different diagnoses different addictions and and but all you’re all there you’re sitting in the seat next to the guy yeah you’re still sitting there you know there’s a guy that walks in and says I’m not like that guy but you’re sitting in the seat next to him that’s he saying right you know and you’re like I’m not like that guy and then your best friends are Ryan Le so that’s you know and that’s and that’s the beauty no matter I always say and I probably told you we sat down for the first scy talk I don’t care how you got here or what got your foot in the door for sure but if you if you put the work in it’s going to change you’re gonna know why you’re here you’re gonna know you need to be here you know and and that’s um that’s the beauty of it that’s the that’s the reason I knew I wanted to be there and like things happen where as as adexs you’re always saying sorry but like one thing with TSH whether we got divorced or not like thank you right thanks for giving me that ultimat looking that sucked like I don’t know what’s going on I’m going to rehab like I’m successful you know it was um more of a blessing than a curse if I remember correctly you you wrote your first thank you when you were in Peaks mhm I remember thatle yeah and it’s as you guys are talking I’m sitting here thinking like is is treatment or Peaks a place you go where you’re broken you have trauma and mental health issues or is it a place where we go and we just tell the truth and we’re authentic yeah is is that what it is because there’s nowhere that I ever felt safe in this world going in and being like hey man I felt sad yesterday because I was hurt because this thing happened there’s no space for it in environment no and so we we go to this place I mean get chill talking about we go to this place and treatment and we all like man it feels so good to be honest yeah and connected in that honesty is it pain is it Brokenness is it g ah yeah it’s authenticity gosh and it’s magical you know and and you in that group always remind me of that opportunity to be where our feet are and really experience that energy man and as I told you before we got on the show there’s some serious intention with bringing you on the show is like I think sometimes we get into these recovery stories and it’s sunshine and it’s rainbows and it’s beautiful and sometimes it is um in the midst of chaos and pain and intensity but I I kind of wanted to start when you when you got out of treatment right away you had you did family with pemma you had every intention you’re one of the greatest fathers I know thank you um you’re an an amazing friend and I know one of your biggest intentions was you I want to keep this family together I want to do whatever I can to do this yeah and that wasn’t the way it worked out how did you navigate that how do you navigate it with such Grace and to your point acceptance as far as like split splitting up with my wife and yeah like what that process like it’s a lock in out of I mean I think when you exit the program with a result different than what you came in for you came in with these external motivators to save your marriage save your family right sure and for some people when they walk out and that doesn’t happen they we want them to be capable to move for board and see the light and see this different chapter and see this journey and see that as just part of life and something that happened what you learn in Peaks was to walk through that right for sure you know walk through that separation that divorce you know um and and what is it like when you walk out not having the result you came in or um having the um the family unit put back together that you were looking for sure you know when you came in how do you when you walk out take what you’ve learned and move forward and and and still feel resolved sure and I think from for me it was in the beginning I was doing it more for TSH than myself like I have a problem drinking too much right but um having that kind of ultimatum was kind of pushed me towards it right where I don’t think I would have gone to Peaks without her like that right right yeah but when I got out of Peaks and I was sober and I’m I’m allowing energy and Vibes in the universe to come inside your head where you’re you’re blocking energy being [  ] up all the time um like the acceptance thing like I’m now that I’m sober I just think about our relationship and it wasn’t meant to be I was drinking a lot because I was scared of her a lot and what happened not an excuse like it’s all her fault right but it turned having a good drinking with with friends and having a good time to drinking before I went home because I’m in trouble for something right right I didn’t put the dishes away or I didn’t [  ] vacuum the right way um but it was just that acceptance like now that I’m sober and I came out of Peaks I have all this these tools to like become who I want to I should have a I should have a different girl in my life just like you you found somebody that is spiritual and loving and kind like how long you been looking for that I didn’t realize how long I was looking for it you know that’s that’s the reality of it is you know you until you’ve made the change and you attract that person um and that person sees in you you know something that that that they see beautiful as well we have to change to become that you have to change my current wife would not have probably wanted anything to do with the Bobby in in 2020 yeah for sure you know seriously that’s the reality of it you know it took a 2020 to put me into a position to where I had to make changes in my life to become a better person and and look Inward and see um you know what’s important and out of that you know came that that relationship you know so yeah um yeah I remember you told me that you said I think you said the 2018 you know she never would have been interested in the 2018 Bobby I was like you are absolutely correct would not have happened right but but it’s amazing to see you know that divorce would have happened either way for you with or without Peaks it would have definitely happened without Peaks no question right and and so having that opportunity to learn how to walk through all that um you know yeah I’m I’m really proud of you for the work you did thank you and I think one of the things that I always brought up in our group meetings when I was at Peaks is like for me it was like you know I just turned 45 and then you know kind of on a bender for whatever I’ve been drinking my whole life and having fun you go to Ocean City it’s a whole different world but um so I would sit around I would think like on a Wednesday night like I’m drinking beers and I probably had like six or eight beers I’m like wonder what my other friends or co-workers or professionals are doing my age at home are they sitting around like drinking beers and like hiding it from their wives and like maybe probably a lot of it but for me I was just like when I got sober I’m like it’s time to grow up like normal people at 43 44 you know 45 getting hammered every night yeah that are professionals maybe there are you know people hi it well but it was it’s just time to grow up mhm just be drunk all the time the rest of my life yeah that’s kind of one thing I learned getting sober and just kind of getting getting responsibility of like I have a huge responsibility at work I’m successful but then I have this other part where it’s my my kids and and um you know TSH and you know my family um we’re just just time to grow up dude we 45 years old yeah you know and I kind of realize that when I was at Peaks like normal people don’t normal normal normal people some people that drink the gall I don’t know what that life’s like but people that um you know I just I just recommend going to Peaks and having it it’s just going to change your life as far as getting sober you start realizing like some of the things you have to sit with and maybe you know things aren’t the way that you want them to go but now you get to deal with deal with those Being Sober yeah it’s easy to drink right every night to avoid your wife or do whatever the case may be but it’s a lot harder to be sober and work through some of these challenges right and for me you know my har my brother died on the 24th my Harley got stolen on the 26th I lost a huge account at work this was all in like two months dude you know and um what am I going to do I can’t I can’t complain I want to get my account back I’m not going to be able to get it back sit around I wish I was married get it back just acceptance doesn’t change anything well I there’s nothing I could do about losing that account that I had yeah it had nothing to do with me um you remind me of like what am my therapist always says to me is like you have this way of walking through things with like integrity and Grace and I’m always like yeah everything’s going to be great my therapist like no it’s not going to be great but you’re going to get through it sure and that’s that’s what you remind me when you talk about without drugs or alcohol yeah like it’s not going to make anything better today I’ve already done that cost benefit analysis what is that like specifically like having real good not to say we didn’t have real good friends but intimate authentic relationships built with people treatment who you still have relationships with how do you navigate I see often times when people get out of treatment codependency being a really big issue and obviously you have tight-knit relationships and a lot of those relationships sometimes experience some turbulence and some intensity how do you navigate that with your peer group um real time and one what was your what was your question just is in regards to like you know people come in a lot of your your your group was um obviously they were there for mental health but they coped with substances um some of those people stay sober some of them don’t yeah how do you navigate that that’s one of the more difficult things especially for me in my early recovery and I know people just relationally in recovery right now really struggle with how do I navigate that how do I show up is it too much is it too little how do you do it because I think you do it really well you know I think there was a couple leaders at Peaks um in some senses as far as like Ryan getting into to Dharma and to meditation and things like that but for me doing it like being in the relationship is business and being in business development it’s really I just care about people whether I didn’t really hang out with you that much at Peaks or not still care about you so when I decided to make that that group text when we got out of Peaks and we’ve been talking ever since it’s just harvesting and letting your your brothers and sisters know that you care we’re all in this together right yeah start group texts start some kind of video chats or you know virtual meetings stay in touch with everybody right good example is a a gentleman that we spoke with uh about earlier who wouldn’t he he wasn’t texting or being on any of these you know any of these chats or anything is Josh’s best friend they were attached at the hip he wasn’t responding right and you can only you can only Wonder like why they’re not responding and always kind of like oh he’s probably drunk again he probably doesn’t want to let everybody in the group know but just let know dude you can call us like you don’t have to be embarrassed about freaking relapsing you know how many guys in in our group that relapsed right right yeah it’s okay call us yeah we’re here for support we’re all in this together we’re all love we love each other we don’t want anybody to die or or get in any trouble and just like for the group we we’re blessed for the group right because we were just so tight yeah but um I probably if I had to do it differently it would have been the same if I left and there were six people when I wonder how many of that group um have turned it around in those moments in those periods in those Seasons because they had a platform to feel seen and heard that’s exactly right you know love and yeah that love it’s huge it’s the Comfort right we’re all together and you could joke about anything I mean I I dude what you it took me like years dude like 12 13 years to get to a point where I was like relapse not bad you’re still good like oh my gosh dude like I was talking to a buddy the other day dear friend of mine you do this so well dear friend of mine he’s like I need to make amends I hurt you I did I’ve been friends with this guy 15 years I said buddy all that like what I need you to know is I love you what I need you to know is when you were here and then you were gone it hurt I want you to know you’re part of my family and because it hurt and you were here and you were gone it made us sad yeah and I want you to know when you’re gone I think about you and it breaks my heart whether you were flying hot air balloons smoke I don’t care buddy I love you yeah and that’s all I want to get across to people who are in the struggle today is like we’re here you know and we want to be here with you and you and your group have this real authentic way of telling that story so people can hear it man it’s it’s really cool and you got to be you you also have to be When You’re Sober you’re not really like taking inventory in your blessings right you’re not like oh I’m thankful that I got a parking meter right out front I thought I was going to little things like that you’re not in Denver I’m not yeah exactly um but you have to be you have to be in an acceptance like I accept these blessings or I accept this energy I accept that most people are like this yeah right they don’t want to accept it I don’t what do I deserve help for right you have to get in a mentality where it’s like dude I deserve both cups full and overflowing right I deserve it yeah and um just being open to that CU when you’re when you’re [  ] up all the time and your your brain’s operating you know in a different wavelength or a different uh frequency is um get sober and just realize that you mean something that you’re important take inventory of it and you you deserve it right like all these blessings m take it somebody does love you you don’t deserve a hug well I’m going to give you one right and it’s just at the end of the day I mean they always say right the thing that can fix the world is love once it’s about the perspective too you know discomfort can be a blessing you know a lot of uh individuals they believe treatment and and there’s a misunderstanding that your problem’s going to go away you know when the reality is the problems are there and and if you look at it as an opportunity to grow you know discomfort is an opportunity for growth and what you learn through walking through that is it’s not a matter of of the problems the consequences of not walking through the problems appropriately are different M you know and and that’s what I think that’s that’s where I think a lot of people don’t succeed you know they get out and they expect these problems to be not the same or be able to walk through them or be more comfortable or not as as much discomfort around it and there’s resources like you know text groups and things like that that can help you work through those and get the support you got the peak app yeah you know I fell off that I don’t know how but that was awesome coming out yeah I need a new L you know PMA PMA would respond and like you know Annie was on there it would just be nice to have that you know but then you have new people coming out right and then it’s like all these other people and you’re like I don’t know you and I don’t know what your struggles are I wanted just to be my guys but yeah there’s a lot of cool things that you know I visited Ryan uh twice in Nashville he’s visited Denver twice Josh um Josh and I hung out over this past weekend okay um being brothers and having that support like you know Mr so and so that was our group that’s you know thinking about taking your life or thinking about um how how bad you are drinking again like we’re here for you dude you you know we don’t judge you like Oh no you’re not in our group text anymore cuz you relapsed yeah it’s like that dude what are you doing next what’s your next step you know have you had some experiences with that tight group that you have where that platform to be seen and heard has helped individuals that you know and with in that tribe to kind of reel them back in get them back where they need to be and yeah we found especially the guys I did um one of the guys in our group called me out of nowhere and he’s like you know I’m not doing good you could tell he’s like I tried to kill myself last weekend oh wow I tried to kill myself this week and uh I didn’t I really didn’t know what to do besides you know tell him he’s loved and like give him suggestions and things like that and um we got on a little group I called The Suicide Hotline and I got three of us on the a group chat for him so just to let him know like do we called Suicide Hotline we’re all on the on the line trying to work through this you know so I think it’s a lot of embarrassment and a lot of they think they failed cuz they relapse right mhm we’re here to to help you dude we’re here to walk you through it call me I’ll call this call The Suicide Hotline at 9:30 at night and call you know so the support and just the Brotherhood still yeah we’re here call me at 2 o’cl in the morning amazing to be in a group to where you can have somebody make that call for you because you’re afraid to yeah when you hang up the phone I think we’re all good people right yeah you’re just like without that group where is he yeah if it and hopefully he took some advice and hopefully you know he’s on still on the phone with the suicide hotline but yeah that’s what are you going to do yeah that’s beautiful thing that’s all you got to do is just you know make the calls and you know the same gentleman still not doing what he’s supposed to do MH and I think even with my brother’s death like you have all the opportunities and all the tools to get better and and you know get back into a healthy space or just not take those advice so that like the you know this gentleman he’s not taking the advice hopefully we won’t get a call saying you know he he lost his life but at the end of the day you can know that you tried to help and you we’re trying to throw some good energy in there and letting them know you’re a brother and it’s okay right so it’s that it’s that support and like IOP IOP too I met a couple couple guys outside of my graduating class that we still talking things IOP is huge yeah even if you don’t think you need to go I don’t know I found you know Julie came and now she my tattoo art like it’s just crazy right life happens quick out there it’s to have a group to bounce it off you know yeah and it’s uh overcoming grief you know and Recovery you know how do you do that I had the opportunity I mean I I got to go out to lunch with you and your family and your mom and your dad unfortunately it was on the precipice I’m just horrific we got to break bread you got a beautiful family dude your pops your mom got wonderful energy I can see where it comes from sure what has it been like showing up is like um Adam in recovery in a setting where it was you these things need to be grieved and talked about how was how was that different for you maybe than in the past as far as uh bringing tools to yeah um my parents went through it so much with my brother so they’re kind of kind of knew what what it was and my parents initially didn’t think I had a problem they’re like why are you going to peakes like TSA just you know doing these things but um navigating it right now it’s been tough cuz I didn’t get to process my divorce yet and then my brother dies yeah and all these other little things are happening so I didn’t get a chance to really grief to grieve cuz when my parents were here it happened they were here for a month and a half trying to get his stuff out arrange funeral stuff like all that good stuff um um we never had a time we it was all good cuz I had my family in the room right we’re all supporting each other we just lost he’s lost your son I lost my brother we’re in this this bubble of love you know we haven’t hit The Grieving cycle my mom didn’t even cry yet um so it was more support then than there is now cuz my parents are gone and they’re back in Hawaii where it’s now I’m starting to realize like oh I’m divorced you know it’s it’s in there you try to block it but like I’m divorced and my brother’s no longer here think about it all day all day every day and I’ll I’ll even talk to him I’ll walk around the house like a weirdo and just have conversation with him right yeah because there’s a few times he showed up in my dreams and um he he doesn’t know he’s he’s gone yet he’s kind of like trapped in that kind of like that world of samsar or like whatever wherever he’s at um but The Grieving cycle has been anger it’s been resentment it’s been tears it’s been denial it’s been all of all of the seven grief Cycles so right now my you know we’re all dealing with it different right my mom can’t cry my dad’s pissed off I’m you know in between acceptance and and anger and denial but um how how I’m doing it is like it goes back to like just being with your with your pure group being with sober people doing a practice for yourself whether it’s get out of the house go to the gym check out Dharma I don’t know you might think it’s weird yeah you know there it might work for you I never thought I was going to go meditate like what the [  ] meditate You’ en forced an opportunity to where you have to use your coping mechanism you have to use them now I mean two probably people that knew you the best MH you know and you the closest to out here or are now not part of your life anymore I mean your ex-wife is to an extent but your brother’s not here and your ex-wife isn’t living under your roof that’s a support system no matter what’s going on with that family system even if it’s um you know contentious because of use and so forth but that there’s still Comfort there there’s security there you know and to have in a short amount of time both those taken away and then now your parents gone back to Hawaii you know that it sounds like now we’re sitting with the grief we’re not going out to eat every night we’re not having a good time not distracting anymore I saw myself at those tables with that pizza too man you guys’ pizza game is so it’s down you know you know the spot come down man and I really appreciate you bringing that up because it’s it just is in process sometimes M um and there’s anger and there’s stages and we’re moving through it but one thing that I just wanted to share with you because I got to be a part of at least some of the energy was that when we got to sit down and have lunch you were a beacon of light a beacon of light and if you were not a beacon of light at that table and in that Arena that experience for everybody involved would have been diabolically different you didn’t become a beacon of light overnight and I don’t know if you see yourself in that setting that way but that’s what I experience and you’re an anchor and that’s how I think family systems and addition to a multitude of other things walk through grief authentically and I’m just grateful that they have you today man that your recovery shows up where your feet are one day at a time it’s not pretty it’s not easy but man it looks beautiful on you thank you really it’s just so worth it man you owe it to yourself you know yeah well he came back after that lunch and and one of the things he remarked was I think you didn’t even know you’re walking into that at the time took me to McDonald’s yeah and he said and and he and and the bright light of that experience was how you carried yourself through it you know um even just at lunch you know and and I know Chris you know remarked about how impressed he was and and he was it was emotional for him he came back and was and was pretty emotional about the whole experience but um remarking how you how you how you were carrying yourself even through that lunch in spite of what had just happened and and for me I’m like man he he still at lunch with you you know still he didn’t I mean that’s just moving life happens you know life happens and and and I have to think that you had a choice you could either cancel that that lunch with Chris or you could keep that lunch in and and um benefit from that connection right in that moment I have to think it was you know it’s it’s amazing what’s greater than ourselves right yeah and and you needed that connection in that moment um which is why you didn’t cancel that Lun I even hit you up thinking there’s no way and you’re like dude I would absolutely love to just and you had to come pick me up in the Porsche though that was yeah that thing was like half electric half it was the the full electric make I forget what it was called take the take on take yeah it’s a sharp little car it was awesome and everywhere Adam takes you anywhere he takes you whether it’s coffee yeah outside of The Bagel Deli that iite him he knows the owner everywhere you go hey it’s Rick hey it’s my buddy Chris P covery knows the owner everywhere knows how the boxes are made why the food was prepared the whole story yeah it’s incredible man like you’re a community’s member member he’s a people person it’s a beautiful thing man for sure man I mean that’s your talent yeah you know and that’s why you’re the one that started that text group that’s why I mean that’s your talent man yeah people people are like oh thanks for texting you forgot about this right you’re like that is your Dharma you just got to get the Dharma yeah that’s your Dharma absolutely to be that person you know yeah I’m I’m in a a spot where it’s most challenging time in my life you know what I really struggle with is now that my brother’s gone you know and my mom and dad pass I’m not going to have like an immediate person in my family like right I don’t have my brother like he’s my I won’t have him for the rest of my life I’ll just have you know just friends and close family and things like that um which sucks but then a big thing for me was like I’ve always owned houses so when I had to give Tosh the house I had to move into like a condo like a a loft or something like that I just felt like walking in like I’m so um my self-confidence went down like I’m I’m I live in houses I buy houses I’m living in a condo and I’m I’m still struggling with it now just like selfworth and some of the things that I lost my wife or I failed in this way um are ruminating right and it’s normal to to have those feelings um but you’re talking about like things like that make you happy is like I bought this house and I was so excited my my new house but it’s like I’m I was excited to have it and I was like cool for like a week yeah right I’m like I’m blessed to have it I mean it’s freaking amazing yeah but what’s what’s really keeping you satisfied and for me it’s just like it’s just like a ton of self-care like I’ll go whatever I’ll go get my nails done one day I’m just like whatever dude go treat yourself to something whatever it is right I’m going to go to a float tank tomorrow um but just self-care man M yeah is is the biggest one for me going through all the challenges like I said I can go drink my face off right now I can leave here and just be like they don’t know nothing they didn’t know I’m hammered talking to him I got my own house exactly yeah stuff syndrome right just some of the challenges I guess long resarch some of the challenges that I’ve I’ve had right are very spaced out these one has just been like back to back to back to back so it’s hard for me to to digest and process it but every time I think about it like I wouldn’t be able to digest and process if I was [  ] up yeah no way I think a part of is knowing that some of these things we bring into our life like the new house it’s going to be shiny temporarily yeah and I think knowing that is is part of being able to walk through it when after that first couple weeks it’s like okay now it’s a new house you know decorated done my thing knowing that’s coming and being aware of that you know so that you can have those self-care you know resources and um because really me for me the things I get the most out of now you know isn’t the stuff isn’t the house isn’t all this it’s the relationships the connections nature man nature you know I know I’ve seen your pictures man you’re going all over you know we finally got our conversion van back after we hit nek so it’s it was in a shop for six months man big old elk yeah big and um we were heading out to tell your ride to go ahead and do some wedding planning and we’re in Blue Blue Mesa and these three elk just come coming down the hill and if you know Blue Mesa you can’t go right or left otherwise you go to the water MH because it’s all bridges yeah so all I could do is just hit on the brakes and and and it was like slow motion we hit that thing and and we were fortunately we were all right we were great we actually limped it into a Walmart parking lot and camped out in a Walmart parking lot for three days oh no way oh yeah stayed and uh we stayed we got it done we didn’t turn around come back we were intentional we stayed and did what we had to do and uh but we just got it back so so yeah I’m finding and and just like you are you know he pulls up you know BMW with the with the big cargo thing on top and I’m like man he he looks like he’s going to the mountains you know looks like looks like he’s going into nature I mean just driving by you’re like that guy lives in nature or operates in nature functions well in nature at least has some Cruel Intentions to being that’s important like the nature thing is huge man for selfcare I don’t know I’m kind of like on different kind kind of looking at Pharmaceuticals and like judging different companies and like who’s going to be picking up like you know some of these plant-based medicines that we’re looking at right it’s going to it’s going to happen right yeah and um you know just looking at like what I’ve taken in the past what I’ve taken at Peaks what I don’t what I don’t take what I take now I’m just really interested in to see what’s going to happen as far as um you know psilocybin comes yeah yeah I think that’s tremendous and for me um I like a lot of of the the therapy that comes along with it and tell you the truth like being you know being on Prozac for so long there’s there’s a couple days I didn’t take it and I just micro doed a little bit right I that did more wonders than any Prozac or any you name it right and it’s just it’s going to be huge for for patients coming into Peaks or whatever the case may be what do you think like 10 years from now we’re going to I think I think early an off man we got the 50th annual winter Symposium coming up at the end of the month we’re putting on a huge huge or we are putting on the talk for the psilocybian plant-based Consortium they’re coming on we have the who’s who I mean you should come and check it out like it’s it’s here we have resources in community it’s ready to go Peaks is not licensed or not a clinic yet for sure because we have such tremendous resources within the community but it’s alive and well man yeah and um I think with reverence um it can change lives and specifically in a lot of people that have stuck PTSD trauma whatever it might be getting people up and over that edge to see what’s on the other side in a clear and safe way I think is really really cool and really important you know you reminded me of something when you were just talking something that Bobby reminded me of as well is is you’re when you’re walking through this grieving process and a lot of like family systems issues right brother’s gone you said potentially my parents are going to be gone um I’ve had a lot of those issues and a lot of disconnection in my family system throughout the years I can’t tell you how many times bobb’s called me whether was my dad died in August of 23 yeah or my brother wouldn’t talk to me in 2020 or my little brother was doing the thing back you know 6 months ago went talk and Bobby would always call me and say like I just I know you’re going through a lot man and I just want you to know that like I’m your family you know and he’s that more times than I can count and so as you said that and it is scary to think well my mom my dad we’re family man yeah of course you just think like you’re going to spend all the rest of your life with your brother you turn 50 you know it’s like yeah you know yeah it’s something to wrap your head around but it’s the grief cycle right and it’s never in the same or the seven steps are in the same order right they’re all over the place and it could be it could vary from day to day too and it cool if you could plan it that way though like yeah it it has it has been uh it’s been challenging but like I’m proud of myself like you talk about courageousness to get into Peaks that’s a dude you walked into Peaks you worked into a rehabilitation center to fix yourself MH right yeah but um I’m just I just can’t talk enough about Peaks I always remember the freaking bathtubs cuz they’re they were awesome and Andy would put like EPs and salts in there we turn the lights off and be like but just like the experience I have and the tools that I brought out of that into my life today are invaluable right I’m a different person maybe I was the same person but because I was intoxicated all the time I didn’t know like this is the authentic me and this is the caring loving kind this is the energy I want to portray rather than getting drunk and getting you know M getting um aggressive or something like that right kind of I’m cool you want to steal my parking spot go right ahead I’ll get another one right I actually I did this at Peaks uh when I got out of Peaks I was I was driving down Cherry Creek and there was this like this guy with a huge truck I think he had Trump Flags I don’t know what it was but I cut him off real bad and he was like he was going berserk right knocking on his window and I was just like sorry sorry it was my fault and sure enough we get we’re in the same uh same light and this the next one turns turns green so we’re getting up to it it turns red so I’m next to him perfect right yeah and I said and he’s like what and I’m like roll your window down he rolled his window down he’s like what [ __ ] and I said I’m sorry for cutting you off he’s like he didn’t even know what to do dude he was like what remember when you told I’m like this is it’s a dick move man I cut you off and I just want to let you know I’m sorry right and just just have a little things like that in life right well the reality is chances are you cutting him off is not what that was the straw that yeah exactly he just he just left his work getting fired or something you relationship issues any you that was just part of his day part of your day like for me I’m just so chill now if something happens had nothing to do with you yeah had nothing to do with you you know it just happened to come out that way yeah for sure and I bet he was like what did you say and you’re like I’m sorry I said I’m sorry oh shoot yeah me too man right oh my I remember when you told me that I’m like dude that’s cool kind I do all the time just little things like why why get your blood pressure and your your nervous system up for somebody cutting you off or taking your just not worth it to me I always tell my wife I’m like you don’t have to look at the person when they pass you she’s always like I know like what are you what is that going to do what you I’m like stop it I need him to know how I feel I need him to know that I’m pissed yeah off we’ve been playing this game too long are you sure you’re not the only one playing the game yeah well it’s been a just uh man a great conversation today some great connection I in in in parting maybe if there’s anything you’d like to share to your brother or your sister who’s sitting on the edge of that phone and sitting on the edge of that courageous decision and you maybe something to say to them with respect to your experience and leave us with that today maybe yeah I think um with suicide it’s it’s hard to understand I’ve never experienced that even with with you know friends and family in my life um for me we did the best we could for him and if you’re calling into different rehabs and different facilities if you’re doing all the things and you’re giving them all the tools and resources and they don’t want to take it or they just have no interest in going to meetings or something like that it’s you can try as much as you possibly can but if the other person doesn’t want it there’s nothing you possibly can do right pay for his car you can help him monetarily you can help them enable them in some ways but at the end of the day you know if they don’t want to be if they’re struggling that bad and going through all these different traumas that they won’t you know they won’t bring out in their lives things can happen like that it’s just a reality right some people don’t want to get better even coming in to Peaks right yeah maybe they’re like forced to go there and they’re like I don’t want to be here you know somebody’s going to save their marriage and doesn’t want to be there but um you have to really want to do it right you’re either going to die out on the street or you’re going to die you know in your house like my brother did my parents had to find them yeah I I love what you said there because there’s this this level where I help and then it’s up to something greater what are you going to do it’s up to something greater and that’s we go up to the line and we serve all the way to the line and then the rest is up to something greater you know a different kind of energy that I’m hopeful to connect with and it goes right back to mental health right yeah every time we didn’t know my brother was that hurting mentally yeah you just never know yeah same people that are smiling laughing that deep down inside don’t like their lives or anybody else you know what I mean yeah yeah it’s a big front it’s always a great reminder too to have you in here it’s just like how far and I’ve said it before I’m Tik toks like you’re a great reminder Adam jger and how far like a handshake a hug smile smile a good day and I’m I’m sorry you know the impact you’re having on this world specifically you know two guys have been doing this a long time in this room is is this really really cool man and thank you for coming down to Colorado Springs finally got your ass down here man finally and uh and I get to see Bobby I know Bobby on the show he sent me uh and he’s I’ve I’ve had I’ve had a couple offers in the past and and this isn’t really my thing I’m not as uh eloquent as Chris is when it comes to these podcasts but when he put in the text he said it’s going to be you me and jger and I was like done let’s do it because you have brought me you know I could be having the worst especially when you were at Peaks I could be having the worst day or just walked away from a a a a um um a situation that wasn’t very comfortable or caused me some discomfort and I could see you walking from the RV garage across and I’d be like man it just change it just changed your smile your energy you know I remember I think it was you that was uh uh during the coffee talk that said you just wish everybody looked at this like this this experience that Peaks as an opportunity and not a burden or a barrier or something to carry you know um I think you went as far as to say you got a in-house chef and you got yoga and you got this and your name it off and I was like yeah it does sound good can I do 30 days here honestly God I think it would Retreat all the time just like retreat honestly God it was like a a mental health Retreat for me and you said that I I I wish they thought that too you know but that’s not the reality of it but that’s why you are successful today and that’s why you’re walking through these periods of grief and using the coping mechanisms and you’re not spiraling and heading back in Peaks again you know yeah living living in the present right it’s so hard it’s it’s so hard right even thinking in this interview I’m like oh what do I have to do tonight I have to get the kids like I know right you’re spacing right you’re you’re going out um but it’s I don’t know it’s just such a great opportunity to to have you guys and have Peaks and have that opportunity your friendship all the family that I have um Being Sober yeah being want to do good in life yeah want to go help people it’s that energy you say your walk out you you’re attracted to people that you want to be with and that energy and it’s all make it like that and we’re and we’re peers now and we’re friends you know this is that’s one of the greatest uh Joys that I get to see coming out of what we do is that you know when you’re and and I think me and Chris we we do a really good job when the client’s there to make them feel like family and make us feel like you know we’re peers we walked through the same thing that you walked through with you there and um but when you get out you know furthering and continuing those relationships are pretty important and every time not even every success story but when somebody goes through Peaks as long as they want to continue to stay connected we get our fellowship grows you know our fellowship continues to grow as Peaks continues to for sure um you know receive and so and that’s that to me is one of the greatest blessings of this industry for me and and and of what we do is we get to sit down with Anatomy eger here yeah you know that we wouldn’t have been able to sit down before and any other profession for me I probably wouldn’t have I’m more of an introvert than I’m an extrovert believe it or not and uh probably hear the volume of my voice and things like that but um but this has been a great opportunity for me um and and it wouldn’t happen probably without you being here and for sure without Chris inviting me so thank you both really enjoyed this yeah appreciate you guys a lot yeah to all of our viewers out there we should do this more often man I used to a lot of alumni it’s just it’s really nice to have you man in this space um we’re better together today remember that don’t be good be great peace [Music]