Episode 90

episode of Finding Peaks I’m Jason friesma Chief clinical officer and host today and joining me uh it is my great privilege to announce the two clinical directors at Peaks recovery Lauren atencio Clinical Director of our Old Ranch campus and Kate Nelson The Clinical Director of our Brook Park Campus what an honor to have you guys here and uh with some significant clinical Firepower today on this show and so we’re going to talk about billing insurance is so exciting no I’m kidding um actually as I was thinking about doing this episode today in the vast amount of time I spent uh contemplating it um I was reminded of a podcast I was listening to and uh the topic of the podcast um I think it was This American Life episode and they talked about how um this woman was at a a dinner party and um as an adult and she had gone to the zoo that day and um she was talking with her friends about it and then she literally said to her friends I was disappointed because the zoo didn’t have any unicorns and she’s being dead serious and then it occurred to her that she had she had this childhood belief that she had never challenged in her life and as soon as her adult brain had said it like she had realized what she had said was that she didn’t see a mythical creature but in her head somewhere in her head uh the Unicorn was real and she was actually disappointed she didn’t see it and of course she took a lot of grief from her friends about that and the kind of the whole show was about uh what childhood beliefs do you kind of carry that uh you have not challenged yet in your life and so that’s this really weird segue into uh what we’re going to talk about today was is a piece of um uh clinical approach called internal family systems and uh and what the and what we what we’re going to talk about is uh inner child work um and so uh it’s a little bit of a stretch maybe or it’s a little conceptually it’s an interesting thing to talk about but we found it to be a really powerful Tool uh to utilize with our clients and uh I know for me it’s been an important tool in my own personal journey and so with that um I want to start with you Kate um uh Kate by the way if you notice her hat uh she has been approached by a lot of people you found out about being a hat model um so they don’t exist so you can email her at K Nelson at Peaks recovery uh if you want me to model a hat I am here for it be awesome yeah it’d be great but anyway so so this inner child work like how how have you found it at Peaks like because we did I’m not even sure when we were writing the original curriculum and doing all of that about the insurers included in it at least not very much um and how have you kind of uh brought that to our women’s program so good question um it really started pretty organically I would say I think all of us just noticed um clients that we would get that would regress to really young behaviors and when we say regression we’re talking about going to a pattern of behavior that seems really young and presents really young anything from closing your body inwards or becoming really tearful or even just the reactiveness that we see in children and so in that we knew that we had to put some interventions in place which is really where I think a lot of us got curious about inner child work and so inner child work essentially is saying there’s a part of you the internal family systems is really a lot of parts work so there’s a part of you that never was nurtured loved accepted um reared as a child the way that you should have been and so that part of you still kind of shows up really young um and so that that gave us the opportunity to kind of look at different strategies in order to support that which you know has turned a lot into um sort of nurturing that part of self which can look a lot of different ways which we can get into but that’s really kind of where it started was just noticing that that our clients were having a hard time showing up authentically because there was this really young part of them yeah I remember I’ve asked so many clients too like um before I’d even done a lot of Investigation into ifs like how old do you feel right now like that was my old question back in the day because you could you can certainly tell when people um are in a place where they are acting maybe younger than their age and the other thing I thought about as you were talking Kate too is that um this internal family systems like it is interesting to say that we have these parts of ourselves that we carry around and um and that sometimes they they are forward and sometimes our younger self is kind of acting out in a way um and that can sound like kind of psychobabble in a way but like so many times people will say like you know there’s a part of me that wants to go on a vacation with my family there’s a part of me that doesn’t we say it all the time and and I think it’s our opportunity as clinicians to be like cool so what part of you wants to know another case with your family what part of you doesn’t and let’s let’s literally explore those parts and I think even applying to like substance use what there’s a part of me that wants to be sober there’s a part of me that doesn’t cool yeah let’s let’s identify and explore those parts further and Lauren I’m going to ask you an open-ended question too like how is this Supply how’s this shown up for you and and your team at at the ranch yeah so I think um especially in our identity and purpose week we review Eric Erickson’s developmental stages um and that’s been a really huge thing I mean for me personally as a clinician is leaning on developmental trauma and kind of how it allows us to revert back into Old behaviors and if you look at the developmental process and if there’s ruptures in that and you aren’t able to go repair those ruptures so if you feel inferior when you’re 13 and you’re always felt inferior when you feel inferior as an adult you’re going to refer back to being a 13 year old and you’re going to do what you did as a 13 year old in order to protect yourself in that space But the biggest difference is this is something I really kind of um kind of stress to the clients is that you’re not 13 anymore so the defense mechanism the coping skill the protective measures that you took as a 13 year old just aren’t going to work the same way for you as an adult because you don’t you’re not 13 and so I think going into a place of going over developmental stages seeing what ruptures may have occurred whether it be in the family of origin at school just any kind of rupture that might have trauma that really kind of stunted that development it definitely allows our clients to revert back and I think we as a team really try to like you said call that like okay so how old are you right now what defense mechanism is this what how did it work with your parents how did it work with your your at school and they’re able to see how it worked and then they’re also able to see how it doesn’t work anymore so a lot of this too is kind of interrupting old patterns and behaviors right you’re not 13 let’s not do what a 13 year old does yeah um let’s do what an adult does and so kind of interrupting that process is huge too with the clients yeah absolutely the other thing that I that I watch with people too so much is um people will take their adult self sitting here in the here now and then be really harsh at things that they did when they were young like I should have handled myself better when I was in second grade or I shouldn’t have you know people carry around blaming themselves for their own parents divorce or conflict in the family or not protecting their siblings enough and that sort of thing and and they take their adult mind and then wonder why they weren’t an adult why didn’t they didn’t act like an adult when they were younger and um this is a little more Loosely attached to the ifs but like I I’ve had people like really like get a picture of a younger person or or get a picture of yourself when you’re younger do you know how big six-year-olds are they’re like this big and like you’re judging that person so incredibly harshly um and you know that brings me that that makes me think of Shame right the shame that gets implanted uh when we are young and that uh you’re not smart enough or you’re not uh perfect enough or you’re not performing well enough or these things are your fault um I think those get uncovered a lot as we do this work as well one of the thing a big thing that I hear clients say is like oh my family never told me I wasn’t smart enough I know they never told me I wasn’t good enough and it’s the thing that people don’t really see is that like we don’t actually go up to people and say like hey Jason you’re not good enough so make sure you remember that it’s the subliminal messages we give like oh why didn’t you get an A on your report card why didn’t you um get a better you know get better friends why aren’t why are you alone all the time why do you do you know it’s it’s natural questions that we want to ask because we’re curious and we a lot of the times it comes out of this care and concern right like why aren’t you doing better but as a kid I always tell clients that like we are inherently selfish humans and as a kid kids can’t process or understand that something that that’s not that something isn’t their fault don’t know a lot of words so um and so we have to internalize we have to blame it on ourselves my parents got divorced because I wasn’t good enough I wasn’t a good daughter I wasn’t you know when in reality that’s not what’s happening but when we’re given those subliminal messages that’s how we internalize it and then as an adult like you said I’m now blaming myself for my parents divorce when I there was absolutely nothing I could have done and so yeah when you think about it like a kid’s world is really small especially like if you go all the way to like infancy the world literally revolves around you yeah right like and so it makes a lot of sense like when your parents are attending to all of your needs for you to feel like the world kind of revolves around me and that you know gets carried forward and obviously as people grow and develop as Eric Erickson describes like you kind of go through these events and and you challenge uh a variety of these beliefs but like it does make sense when you’re a little kid that like I must be at fault because this happened and the world kind of revolves around me so this is probably my fault as an adult I think most of us are a lot better at recognizing that the world does not always revolve around us and that we aren’t in charge of that except for Lauren um this is Lauren’s show we’re all just on it yes yeah I mean I was supposed to host it but Jason didn’t yeah I just like dumped you out of the chair yeah but um yeah so I think these things uh are important um to explore so so why do we do it why when we’re when people come in with substance use disorder or depression or bipolar or anxiety or PTSD why why is this an important component of a six-week program okay okay yeah take it away um so I mean you did mention trauma and I think our shame narratives and Trauma just go hand in hand right and so what we do really well I think is getting to some of the underlying issues to why are you depressed why are you anxious why do you stay in this pattern um and so to get to that we have to get to these hard places we have to get to that little kid that’s scared still and hurting and doesn’t feel worthy and good enough and so that is why we do it um speaking a little bit more to that we we usually offer a lot of narrative assignments therapy around it writing but there’s so many ways to do it we really like to look at like how are you talking to yourself because if you’re talking to yourself the way that the caregivers in your life did that made you feel that way that tells us that that child is hurting and so that is why we get to it because that’s probably one of the core issues why people are continuing to stay in their suffering can you think of specific examples before you get before you talk like of things people tell them yeah so what we hear a lot is just kind of you know I’m not good enough I’m stupid I’m a failure um I can’t succeed at whatever XYZ thing that I was told that I should what’s that not worthy of love not worthy of love not worthy of belonging that’s a big one with a lot of our clients they don’t feel like they belong anywhere um so those are a lot of the narratives that are usually linked to that hurting kid
I think what this brings up and to add on to what you said too is like this concept of re-parenting right like if I and this isn’t just for parents so I don’t want the parents watching this to think that like we just sit and attack or like attack you when our clients are with us one thing that I make it very very clear to the clients on the front end when we start doing inner child work is that I am not here to play the blame game we are not here to play the blame game because if we keep blaming our parents our caregivers or anything then you’re going to stay stuck in that yeah and so bringing up this concept right of re-parenting even is that you know you know clients might say you know I I expect certain certain things from my mom I expect my dad to show up in a certain way and so what we try to do really is allow for them to for them to show up in that way if my mom can’t show up in this way to support me or if my dad can’t come in and really provide love care support then how do you just do that for yourself so you can maintain a relationship with family but not have these expectations on them because you’re actually filling that cup you’re actually talking to yourself in the nicer way you’re noticing when because I I notice so much with clients is they actually like push their inner child away like I want to protect you so much from this hurt that I’m gonna put you in the corner but all that does is tell that inner child that again they’re not good enough they can’t handle things right so being able to give that voice of like hey you can be emotional in this space because I will protect you which is a little weird sometimes right because you’re like talking to like your younger self and when I first started full disclosure I I was like what am I doing right now but it is so powerful and so just wanted to add on to that with the re-parenting process and I like that you mentioned this isn’t an opportunity for us to to be bashing people’s parents or family systems like that isn’t what this looks like at all it’s really essentially saying like you know your parents gave you a lot and then let’s fill in some of the gaps like you needed this let’s try to meet that need and you have the empowerment to be able to meet that need so let’s look at what that would be rather than throwing anyone under the bus or anything like that it’s really an opportunity to just say here’s some needs that weren’t met and I want to start meeting them for myself and I think in my understanding too and I and I’m not an expert on ifs like I’ve I’ve certainly learned a lot about it but I don’t I wouldn’t consider myself an expert in it but it does seem like I I think what you said too Lauren like a lot of times we’re like oh I’m feeling young or whatever I’m going to go again put my kid in the corner or whatever and I think um good ifs good internal family systems practitioners will say like what is your inner child just trying to tell you like just turn and listen to your like what’s feeling unsafe or what what is that inner child need to hear as you said and I know we kind of chuckle as we say this because like um we are very practical people too and we are professionals and some of some of these things we’re saying can sound a little um far-fetched or like hard to imagine but uh the reason that we bring it out is like it it does help um and it does help get to some of the underlying causes like like you mentioned Kate of what is driving some of the depression or at least perpetuating it um and how how can you recover if you’re sitting in the shame and being beating yourself up so significantly and I’ve I know I’ve shared on this show so many times or a few times anyway that like I’ve I and groups have said how many of you feel like the worst people on the planet and at least half the group will raise their hand and that means everybody all those people and probably everyone in the chairs are telling themselves such significantly horrendous things about themselves that recovery from anything depression anxiety or substance use is going to be nearly impossible because of how hard I’m being of myself all the time and so finding that Grace and cultivating some compassion for oneself I think is such an important aspect of this and it but it does take time and intention to do like it’s one thing to say like just be nice to yourself or whatever but like it it takes work and honestly it takes a lot of guidance sometimes too for us to be able to really feel it like really allow ourselves to find a little compassion and uh and step out of that perfectionistic approach or just that really harsh uh aspect yeah yeah absolutely and I think you kind of said it right it’s just a practice of being kinder to self and meeting your own needs and I think a big part of it too is like trusting yourself trusting that the work that I’m doing within treatment with therapists with medical any of these things the work that I’m doing I’m building up my adult self and my younger self to be able to trust that I can take care of this and I’m not alone in all of these different areas of my life and I think that’s just one of the most powerful things for clients to be able to discover
only I love that you said that because like so much you know as as we are working on this integrated care model and and helping people um we still are calling it recovery but it means much more than just being sober from substances like it’s recovering from a lot of things and and so much about recovery is regaining access to and the ability to trust our gut to trust ourselves yeah um and as we as we’ve been kind of rebound damping our curriculum and talking it through again like it really became clear to me that when people walk into Peaks they’re out of relationship not only with the people around them but with themselves genuinely like to the point where they’re poisoning themselves or not getting out of bed or their anxiety is so high and it isn’t even really attest to reality it’s like attached to just this rumination and they’re they’re detached from their body and they’re out of sync with that and they don’t know what’s good for their body and healthy for them um and so much of it does go back to like I mean it sounds like a kid in a way like that needs guidance and needs a little support and help and um and it’s so important that we equip people to then learn how to do that themselves without us right like it’s our whole job to put ourselves out of business yeah 100 yeah yeah yeah I think it goes into the flipping the script thing too is like you know I’ve had clients do empty chair exercises and and we put their inner child their young self in the chair in front of them and give them the opportunity to see oh wow like that little kid was described his whole life as rebellious a nuisance messy you couldn’t do anything right and you have the client sit there and you they look at their younger self and just this powerful moment of like he was just a kid yeah like he was messy and rebellious and kind of crazy at times because he was a kid and finding that compassion for our inner child and our younger self goes back to what we were talking about there too yeah well I I don’t lose track of kids hearing the opposite messages with pressure as well like you’re the responsible one you’re the smart one yeah you’re the one you’re gonna make it you’re the anchor of this family You’re My Hope for the future that has the same aspect just even though those all sound nice but they put a ton of pressure on the kid too totally that kid now has to be perfect yeah exactly yeah no I love that you kind of described like the process that we use because I think that’s a really important piece of it is a lot of us use the empty chair model to kind of bring in this visualization of your younger self because I think that’s the moment where there’s the connection right like wow this little seven-year-old like believes that they should have been responsible for this or that they should have fixed this or that they should have been able to do this these big things these big adult things and then this realization of like they were just this little human that was just looking for guidance you know and that’s where the powerful moment comes in for clients and when they can really buy into it and kind of take that this seems corny out of it um when they have that moment yeah it always seems a little corny when we’re doing it right I know it feels like it feels like describing somebody dancing or describing a moment and it’s like it just doesn’t do it justice but um but it is really important and um and I know Brandon and Clinton are going to give me a little grief for talking about this but like I don’t care because like it’s really important and it’s been an important uh P star curriculum and helping people to cultivate their self-compassion and and uh giving people that walk into Peaks an opportunity to to find some of that I think is uh really pretty critically important absolutely yeah um all right so with that uh we’re already out of time thanks for checking over your shoulder yeah um but we’re at a time I uh I appreciate you guys coming on um I think it’s a great discussion um and I want to thank everyone for watching or listening to this episode uh you can find us on um Facebook and Instagram and uh uh I think the tick tock haven’t seen as many of those lately but some tick tock um maybe we get Kate uh and some hats and
anywhere you get your podcast as well and with that we’ll go ahead and sign off