Episode 153

I let them know they’re you’re doing something really positive for yourself and this is the best thing you can do for yourself right now. But the goal is in 30 days to have them experiencing one of their best days. Mhm. And we often have the the the opportunity to see that with people that come through care. Like a lot of people have trauma and that’s why they can’t like get in the shower or um and they have they need to address the trauma before we start forcing them to try to do this task that they feel like is impossible.
Hey everybody and welcome to another amazing, exciting and of course enthusiastic episode of Finding Peaks. Yours truly, chief executive officer and founder Christopher Michael Burns. So grateful to be here today and be joined by an amazing professional but an even better human, Angela Nash, our medical supervisor and psychiatric nurse practitioner. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. So, a lot of people watch the show up up at the uh facility staff and otherwise, and they’re always like, “Don’t pick me. Don’t pick me.” And uh um I’m grateful you decided to join me today because I think we can really um find ourselves in an organic conversation, about mental health, um about recovery, about how we walk people into this process, how we alleviate fears, build trust, and create relationships here at Peaks Recovery. So really, really excited to have you. I want to talk a little bit about your early career. Started out as a nurse. I did. Um nurses to me, and I told this to Jen because she was on the show a couple weeks ago, are like the glue that holds everything together. They kind of do a little bit of everything. And oftentimes their guests, clients, and patients in hospitals favorite people. Why did you choose to um go into the nursing profession? I wanted to be a nurse since I was like 12. Really? Yeah. I always wanted to care for people. So that’s ultimately why I did it. It just took me a long time to get there. But um and even then I didn’t start in mental health. I started on you know med surge floors and stuff like that. And um that was a good experience. I learned a lot. But um the mental health is where I really find it’s more rewarding than other places. Did you know that there was like this side of um health care that was driven by psychiatry or driven by Not when I started. Okay. Not when I started. Yeah. I always wonder too like when people choose to be doctors I don’t think top of mind is like being a psychiatrist. Yeah. Something like that, you know? So I think it could be. Yeah. But like for psychiatrist that would make sense because you’re you have to pick a specialty when you start. But like for nursing, you can go anywhere and choose it whenever you want, change it when you want. Yeah. Can you start out as a nurse um for example in labor and delivery and then just with that same nursing degree you can go into pediatrics? Yeah. Or you can just kind of move around so you don’t necessarily have a specialty. Yeah. Exactly. Oh, that’s really really cool. What was it at 12 years old? Why do you think? Because at 12 years old, I didn’t know what I wanted to do. I don’t know. My family was really religious and Okay. I always was really compassionate and very um empathetic to people and I just I was the oldest too so I was always taking care of everyone else so I was kind of used to it and I just thought that I would do that for a living. How did you start to hear about um when you started your nursing career? How did you start to hear about behavioral health and the mental health side of things and what piqu your interest? Well, honestly, mental health is everywhere. after you actually start working, you see that like it’s it’s on every floor. It’s in every situation you’re in. Um people’s mental health is important and you watch it fail a lot in the hospital. And um I went from there to psychiatric nursing and in psychiatric nursing um I learned a lot. I did it for 10 years. Okay. um before I decided to be a nurse practitioner. Um I learned a lot from the doctors around me and just the flow of things, medications, things like that. Um but I also had the ability to deescalate people and provide compassion and empathy and when I see them at their worst, I find I get them at their worst and at their lowest point in life. And to be able to help them recover from that is a really great experience. Yeah, that’s really cool. You can tell that you certainly kind of had that passion whether you knew it or not. Do you find that like in the ER setting, is that where you started? No, I started Well, I started in uh surgical trauma. Okay. So, for example, surgical trauma, would you see people come in with physical symptoms as a result of a mental health issue or would you see people come in um getting treated for kind of external stuff and you would be able to identify this might be more of an internally driven situation? Yeah, a lot of times they came in with physical ailments and then you would discover that they also had mental health issues. How do you begin to engage with people who maybe don’t know that they’re struggling with a mental health issue? How do you begin to engage with them compassionately and empathetically like you talked about in an effort to connect with them um in a real way? I mean, just asking for their life story really. What brought you to where you are now? What makes you feel the way you feel? any like any kind of trauma like not just physical sexual and emotional abuse but things in your life that have happened that have changed the way you are now. Um just helping them identify those things and see how it may have affected them when they might not realize it. Yeah, that makes that makes a lot of sense, too. And kind of brings me to like a follow-up question is how do you dismiss shame in that process? And how do you approach individuals without kind of this energy of like something’s wrong with you? Let me allow allow me to fix you. In my experience, when I first showed up at 13 years old to YDI, Youth Development Institute, it was very much like I had a problem and I was going to this place to be fixed and they had the solution. But I never found connection in that approach because it was very inauthentic to me. I feel like when you tell someone or you’re talking to someone and learning their story and learning their traumas, you see the reason for why they do what they do. You see the reason for any kind of behaviors that might be considered inappropriate or you see a reason for substance abuse. You understand why they do what they do. Mhm. And I think just validating that and ignore like acknowledging this is this is real trauma. I know you might not think it is, but it really is and it’s probably why you do the things that you do. And I think that helps a lot. I love that. It’s a really compassionate way to kind of connect with people and begin to allow them to experience something that you and I both know is very very important, which is like to be seen, valued, and heard. Mh. And that really, really goes a long way. It’s so interesting you say that because a couple days ago there was a guest in care. He’s been with us one time before. I think at least one time before, and he’s beating himself up. And I always go back to the Rich Roll quote and I’ve used it in here so many times, but with respect to substances, this is the way that I look at it. It’s hard to get enough of something that almost works. It’s hard to get enough of something that almost works. And that you basically just said that’s the way in which you approach guests, clients, and and patients in your work. It’s like, of course you did. That must have been so difficult. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It’s you you can’t even you can’t blame them for where they are now. There’s a reason for why they’re there. Mhm. Do you find, Angela, with that approach that guests or clients are able to settle a little bit more? Maybe they come in tense or they just got there and they’re in their first 24 hours and you’re trying to get some the psyche valve done. What do you find in the uh guest disposition when you’re able to truly connect and empa empathize with them? I mean, I feel like they they feel some relief like this is this is not all my fault. I don’t have to be here. I don’t have to feel shame for being here or like I’m actually like I let them know they’re you’re doing something really positive for yourself and this is the best thing you can do for yourself right now and if all you can do is show up right now and not even participate like whatever you’re able to do just do your best every day. That’s all you can do. Yeah, that’s really cool. And and it’s not the way that I actually started my career. We were talking a little bit before the show, you know, when I got sober back in 2008. They were like 90 and 90. Do this thing. I don’t care about all the trauma informed stuff we talked about in treatment. Do this thing or you’re going to die because you’re just one in a million of these people. And so I went into AA and I’m like, oh [ __ ] you know, oh, I can’t sit still. But the first time, and I think it was right around 5 years of sobriety when somebody actually saw me like you’re talking about, I was at the meadow. It was actually well she was probably probably closer to 8 years but I was at the Meadows for some mental health and some some trauma work and this person came up to me and just saw me and held that space and it was like I was like this for like 8 years and then all of a sudden I was like oh my gosh I was able to really really settle and then all of the sudden the words that the provider was telling me wasn’t a bunch of mumble jumbo. was actually able to listen, interpret, and connect with what they were trying to deliver to me. But it wasn’t until they saw me where I was at. So, I love that that’s the way that you approach the work with our guests and certainly the way we approach it at Peaks Recovery Centers is to show people that inherent value that like somewhere was lost. I really feel like everybody at Peaks does that. Like I I feel like we all have the same feelings towards our patients where we act we really care and it makes a big difference. Yeah. It kind of we all march to the beat of the same drum. So it’s it’s really symbiotic in that way and the way we’re able to approach guests. It’s it’s just very interesting to me. I’m just thinking to myself this morning I ran into somebody and it’s interesting on the front end. You said, “Sometimes I meet people on their worst day, but the goal is in 30 days to have them experiencing one of their best days.” Mhm. And we often have the the the opportunity to see that with people that come through care is like day one. Yeah. That’s a definitely a beautiful day. Yeah. It’s a really really cool thing. And you can tell a lot of folks that are in our care, whether they have great families or not, just haven’t really been seen in a long time, you know. And so from a community-based perspective and a provider-based perspective or treatment program, I think the emphasis on seeing, valuing, and hearing people is extraordinary um to anchor into the work that we want to walk with them throughout. So yeah, really appreciate that. What was it about um being a nurse practitioner? Was there an inflection point in your career or was that something that you had thought about throughout the 10 years you were doing nursing or um Well, not going to lie, nursing is exhausting. Yeah. you are on your feet a lot and you are running and I had back problems and I couldn’t keep doing that. So I was like well I better advance this somewhere where I don’t have to turn patients because it hurts literally that’s why I did but um I I love it like it’s it’s a great I like working with the nurses. I like working with my team. I think all of our providers are really compassionate. Yeah, I think it’s really good. They’re really strong people. I agree. Is it um because you can just go be a nurse practitioner, but the psychiatric side of things, that’s a different route, right? Right. When you when you choose to be a nurse practitioner, you have to pick your route. Okay. Like you have to know which one you’re going to do. Um the most general is like family nurse practitioner. Okay. But I focus mine on mental health. Okay. And addiction. Is there more? Do you have to do more like a residency or how does that process work? Right. Like you do your schooling. Okay. And then you have to do a residency for a year. Okay. and you go to four different rotations and you know you work on certain things each rotation. Okay. And I mean learn how to do everything you just learned in school. What was one of the biggest surprises for you as you began to educate and learn more about mental health, behavioral health um in your schooling or maybe it’s um in your career? What was one of the most surprising things that maybe you didn’t know before you got into the profession that you know to be true today? I guess I didn’t realize the depth of how much people suffer. Yeah. Until I was actually in nursing. Um I didn’t realize how bad it can get and being in mental health, it’s you see the absolute worst and you see people out of their mind and it’s at no fault of their own. Um, and I think that was not shocking to me, but definitely life-changing. Yeah, I’m really grateful you actually mentioned that. You know, when I got into recovery, I’m like, I’m pretty sure I’m the worst human here. I’m pretty sure I’ve been through the worst. I have the worst of this, the worst of that. If you had what I had, you would do what I do. And then I started to meet these people um friends in recovery as a professional guest in the program and I started to see that I could actually my story could fit inside of a lot of the people we serve and that was a pretty profound experience and just furthermore push me into kind of compassion. I mean, it’s mind-blowing what some of these people have been through and people think, Angela, it’s like um I remember we I worked at a place called Decision Point Center as my first job in treatment about 17 years ago. And it was like the place like it was, you know, 2008 was $30,000 a month. It’s really expensive now. It was really expensive then, but like if you loved your family member, this is where they went. And I remember sitting with this person and um she was really connected like with my favorite NFL football team. Her family had a private jet. She had all these things. And I was like, you know, and I thought to myself when she first came in, I’m like, what what could be so bad? I grew up poor. At least you have money. Then I started to learn about her story. And it blew me away because I had always thought as like lower middle class kind of kid that like money buys happiness and people that have money like they don’t have problems like we do. And then I started to learn her story about incest and about rape and about violence and about spe sexual abuse, assault from a very young age all the way throughout her teens all the way until she was an adult. And yeah, she still was connected with all those resources, but she was experiencing a depth and weight of pain um that I don’t think I could have ever fathomed. Yeah. And it really opened me up to this thing that we get to do on a daily basis. And yeah, I’m really grateful you brought that up because it’s uh big stories we deal with. Um and I’m grateful for the opportunity to do that and walk with people and help kind of like work through those stories that can be really really intense. Yeah. Um, something I definitely wanted to talk about today because I don’t get to talk about it a lot with a lot of providers is kind of lived experience, you know, struggling with mental health, um, working into recovery and the space in between. Um, you have obviously lived experience. You you wanted to be a helper since you were 12 years old. And oftentimes those first childs help everybody. And um, if you’re anything like uh, my older brother, you forget to help yourself. Sorry, Brent. No, kid. Um but I I was the same way. And so what have you experienced any mental health issues and or distress? What did you do? How did you cope with it? Um we’ll start there. Yeah, I had a lot of um mental health issues in like my 30s. Um, I had a very sick child and a lot of trauma from having her in the hospital and constant hospitalizations and close to death experiences and all of that. And I would treat my mental health issues as well, like inappropriately. And I when I finally I I hit rock bottom, I actually did. So, I do know what it’s like to have to fight your way back up. and um how hard that is and how it’s a dedication like a day at a time type of thing and you just have to take one day at a time. Mhm. Until everything becomes more habitual and um I I like to think I get to bring more empathy into the situation because of what I’ve been through. Yeah. So, and thank you for sharing that. So your mental health stuff was kind of I always like refer as like kind of a late bloomer. So in your 20s you didn’t experience a lot of that until you had a trauma or a significant well the start the trauma started in my 20s and I think it just kind of it just compiled over and over and at first I was just really strong and dealing with it and then it just wore on me and yeah I had a lack of support system. There was all kinds of factors but Yeah. And you couldn’t pray it away. No, I could not. Dang it. I was trying. I was like, come on. Not to say prayer is bad, but you know, definitely some professional help is is warranted at times. It’s interesting you say that, especially with um the labor and delivery of your daughter. Um I was reading a study, this was like I’m going to butcher it because I’ve said it on the show before, but um I was reading a study, maybe it was a couple years ago, a year and a half. Time flies when you’re having fun, but it said that maybe it’s a Mayo Clinic article. It said if you break your arm, you should get psychotherapy. What if I don’t necessarily agree with that, but if you break your arm, you should get psychotherapy. What if the inflection point is like somewhere in the middle and everybody goes in, they get surgeries, they have labor and delivery issues, their daughter has medical issues, they’re in the NICU for 90 days, they’re all these medical, they’re living under fluorescent lights, there’s all this stuff. Each time a doctor walks in, it’s worse news. It’s like it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. And people oftentimes just roll over those situations like a speedboat. And it’s not like the OB came in and was like, “Hey, you went through a lot. Your family went through a lot. Here’s a resource for one of those psychiatrist people.” Yeah. They don’t do that. No. They’re like, “All right, see you later. Baby can breathe. Good luck.” I mean, when I took my baby home from the hospital, I was like, “What am I going to do with this thing?” You know? So I would imagine that having experienced some intensity, having experienced some trauma in your 20s and then moving through and having a situation like that that’s really really big, it was just one of those things where it’s like I have to imagine like I just need some relief. Yeah. And trying to find that can be really really difficult especially when life’s big and it’s intense, right? What do you do today to inform your mental health? Um on the recovery side of things, how do you cope with life? because you know you deal with big stories all the time. You’re often times one of the first people you guests meet on site. You’re often times the people they come with with some of the more um descriptive um
reasons in which um they’re coping with substances or coping with process driven issues and things like that. Um so how do you walk through that? Well, I see a therapist every week. Nice. Yeah, I definitely see a therapist every week. Um, she’s great. Um, but yeah, I’m able to unload anything that I ended up holding on to, like a story that really affected me or um, something hit close to home or something like that. Um, so I deal with it that way. And then I have a great support system. I’m a very loving husband and um, I have six dogs. So Oh, that’s sweet. I knew you had dogs. I didn’t know that. Yeah, I love fostering puppies and helping animals find homes and stuff like that. And that’s that’s like fills my heart up. I love that. I would have maybe a handful of years ago, I’ve been like, “Dogs, help you.” But so I’ve been I was doing this thing and I started it a few years ago, probably a couple years ago where I’d go home and I’d be so anxious and just intense. My nervous system’s on fire. It’s an intense day at work. And I would have my dog at the time, Billy. I would just go lay in my bed, put like my comfies on, you know, when I get home and then go lay in my bed and I’ll have the dog just lay on my chest and like a minute in I’m like, “Oh my god, they’re very therapeutic.” Yeah. It’s so cool. There’s like this exchange that’s really really powerful between animals and humans if I can be present for it. So that’s really cool. The therapy thing that’s um something I’ve certainly engaged with. What type of therapy is it? Is it just talk therapy? Mhm. just talk therapy. Okay. I love that too because when you when you go we often talk about um when it’s a 12step thing there used to be this well there still is a step step 10 and it’s this daily house cleaning and the idea is is life gets big and intense and then we kind of say okay this is where I was dishonest this is where I fell short this is where I need help on you know a 1937 approach to therapy. Mhm. Uh do you find that that weekly work is is needed for individuals in recovery or needed for yourself because of the work you do, the recovery process you live in? Um yeah, just kind of once a week. Does that feel like Yeah. I mean, it’s really therapeutic. I do need to unload. I I I do need to like refresh why I do what I do and why I’ve come how I’ve come so far and like re like she really gives me um encouragement to think about the things I have been able to do as opposed to focusing on things that I’m struggling with. Um and eventually I succeed at those things as well because I’m thinking more positively. Yeah. Do you find that’s kind of like an evolutionary process? Like you’re like, “Wow, got that done.” And then you go around the other corner, you’re like, “There’s another.” Yeah. Yeah. And that’s just kind of like life on life’s terms, right? There’s always stuff. Uhhuh. How have you found that um your recovery has impacted you as a mother? Um, well, I’m very compassionate towards my daughter and where she’s been and she has significant trauma because, you know, she was the one that was sick. So, she’s got a lot of trauma from that. And, um, just being able to
be with her where she’s at. And I mean, she’s struggling herself with her own things right now. and um just being able to just be supportive and just be a mom instead of try to be a nurse. Yeah. Cuz that’s what I used to do. Yeah. You’re like And she didn’t appreciate that very much. So just being a mom instead. Um and being there to listen and not always trying to come up with solutions because maybe there isn’t any. Um, it just I understand that sometimes it feels like there’s no solutions. Um, and I think it just made me a better listener. Yeah, that’s a really big deal. That’s some hero mom [  ] right there. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz you want to fix it. Yeah. Of course you do. You probably come from the generation, the same generation I come from is where parents a lot of times were like, “Don’t do what I do, do what I say.” Right. I think that is such a copout. Yeah. Just do what I say, not what I do. Have you ever read the book? Maybe I’ve asked you this before. Um, but not on the show, obviously. Have you ever read the book The Journey of a Heroic Parent? I haven’t. Have I asked you that before? I think so. Did I tell you about it? I don’t think so. So, it’s super cool. So, it’s written by this guy is Brian something. He’s PhD and he is like the who’s who of adolescent programs in Utah. You know, it’s like 10 of them. He’s like the authority on the topic. And so his 13-year-old son is struggling substance use mental health, you know, and he goes to check him into like the next best program outside of his in Utah. And he goes up to the guy and he’s like, “Listen, it’s my son Joe. He needs to quit sneaking out, quit smoking pot. He’s drinking too much to get better grades. He has terrible relationships. Here’s the card. Here’s the RX. Here’s the treatment plan. I’m Brian, PhD. Do it. And the guy looks at him and it starts in the front of the book. And he hands him a card and it’s for a family intensive workshop. And the guy was blown away. He’s like, are you [  ] kidding me? Like I’m Did you check my resume? Like I don’t need that [ __ ] But the part the front end of the book is him sitting in the family program and doing his processing. Well, the book goes on to talk about a bunch of different things, but in the end, essentially when dad started his recovery, it wasn’t that long after that that his son began to not struggle with the issues that he had struggled with and he went on to live this happy and very purposeful life, but he was just following his dad. Because our kids will do what we do, not what we say. Mhm. And so I love what you said about showing up as a parent. It’s more about like taking care of myself and holding the space necessary, right, to stay in connection. Cuz to your point, I’ve done that so often in my recovery where I’m like, I come in and I’m like, this is what you have to do. I sever connection. I lose influence and they’re out and they’re gone. I think the way that you talk about recovery and the way you’ve shown up as a mom is ensuring that regardless hell or high water, I stay in connection and that can be really difficult to do especially when the ones we love are presenting with high-risisk behaviors and safety issues and things like that. They can be really really scary and so I appreciate you sharing that. Especially for moms um with kids that are, you know, potentially struggling with mental health, it’s so easy to go in and fix and it’s so much more difficult to hold space, you know, but that’s powerful. Yeah, that’s really really cool cuz my boys like they don’t I posted a video yesterday. It’s like they don’t People are like you work out with your boys. I’m like that’s like once a month they come into the garage and they bounce around on a ball and like lift a kettle bell. They don’t like work out with me nor would they ever. But they’re following pretty close behind because they see what daddy does, you know. And I’m a big fan of kind of um doing what I say and saying what I mean, which I think is you’ve kind of eloquently stated is kind of a prerequisite for recovery. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. What do you think are some of the common misconceptions about mental health? And why is it so difficult with people in your experience with mental health issues to find treatment or to seek treatment? I see a lot of people whose families discourage them from seeking treatment and like their families think there’s you know mental health is just not real and there that doesn’t matter and you shouldn’t that shouldn’t be a problem in your life and just deal and all that kind of stuff. And like then I just stopped them right there. Like that’s completely untrue. Yeah. Like mental health matters. Mental health is health. And you’re going to struggle in all of these different ways in your life until you get your mental health under control. Yeah, that’s a good point, too. Why do you think it is that I have my opinion, but why do you think families of young loved ones, call them young adults, I see it a lot with young adults, why do you think it’s so difficult for those families to say, “Yeah, you are struggling with a mental health issue and we should probably get you some help.” I don’t know. I think it it was never looked at like it is now or the way we try to look at it now. Um, and like older parents are thinking, well, we all just dealt with it. We didn’t have medications. We didn’t have therapy. And our kids should just do the same thing. And it’s a different world now. It’s way faster paced. Like, you have to take care of yourself. It makes that makes a lot of sense, actually. It’s just the access to information is just so much more at our fingertips than it ever was. Mhm. You know, I would never know there was going to be like a solar eclipse unless like, oh wow, we’re having a solar eclipse. Like we didn’t know, you know, that kind of thing. So, the access to information can create some intensity in one’s journey that otherwise probably wouldn’t be there. I love that you said that. And I also wonder too, you know, if we think about when Alcoholics Anonymous was formed, 1935, really really formed by like 1938, set in setting, like it’s World War II. Women don’t have rights. If you’re in 1935 and you’re a female and you have a mental health issue, that’s not good. No, that’s so bad. That’s not good. So, we’re only talking a few to two or three generations off of the World War II folks. And so that has to permeate into the information that our parents give us because not only would it exacerbate shame, but it would create um an unsafe situation. You know, I’ve I’ve heard stories of grandmas and mothers going and just never coming back. So that’s a very real thing. And not to mention the shame in 1935 he said he had a mental health disorder or substance related disorder. That’s why Alcoholics Anonymous formed in these church basement so nobody could see them, so nobody knew. And that’s why anonymity is so important. Um, do you think that’s a lot of it too is this kind of generational pain and shame from that? Oh, absolutely. The older generation definitely puts shame into any kind of mental health problems. Yeah. What do you think about the saying, this is like a more generational thing. What do you think about the saying of just kind of like dust off your boots, lace up your shoes, and put one step in front of the other? Do you find that beneficial for people that are mired in mental health? I mean, we’re all going to have to do that. Yeah. But people need more help to get there. Like some people can literally not put one foot in front of the other because they are so depressed or like they can’t get out of bed, they can’t shower, they can’t do the basic things that they need to do. And I think offering them help is the only way to go with that before saying, “Okay, just just do it.” Like you can’t tell someone in that situation to just do it. It’s not going to go well cuz they can’t. Yeah. Yeah. They literally just can’t put one foot in front of the other. Um some folks have difficulty ambulating, waking up, eating, bathing, all the kind of stuff you’re talking about. And I think sometimes people assume, well, they’re just a little bit depressed. Like get on with it, you know? Go get some sunshine. Oh yes. You don’t you love that one? Smile. Yes. Smile. Smile. It’ll be better soon. you know, and it’s so easy sometimes to be like when you’re in long-term recovery and sometimes I forget, you know, I’m just like, well, maybe if you just go outside and go for a walk and they’re like, what? Go outside? Go for a walk? It seems really, really difficult. Do you start with your um the guests that you work with? Do you start like from a obviously a treatment plan perspective that the clinician enacts, but do you try and start with like small goals like bite-sized chunks or how do you approach guests who are having difficulty putting one foot in front of the other? Um well, I start with their story as to why it’s happening. And usually there’s some kind of underlining issue as to why they can’t do these things or why they struggle to take care of themselves and try to so I try to address those things and have them discussed in therapy or with me or with anybody at our facility really. And I think as we address the underlining issues, they’re able to do more. Yeah. Yeah. I love that too. I I I often look at like big projects like I would imagine like going into treatments big project and I look at it and I’m like it’s too big I can’t do it. But I found if I could be like okay well today all I need to do is just go to this group eat lunch do another group and nothing else. I can do that part. And so I think sometimes, at least for me in early recovery and people that I had the opportunity to connect with, we look at the mountain and we’re like, we don’t have the tools to climb it. Um, but making smaller kind of bite-sized goals can really fortify that experience. And then you get what I like to call at the end of the day like a mental health victory, you know, and those are super important. And I see you, the providers, the nursing team, certainly the therapists and people that work at Peaks is like just shrink those goals a little bit, one day at a time. And it’s been my experience that if you can put a lot of one days at a time together, you know, 30, 60, 90, 120 days from now comes a lot better than I could have ever imagined. Yeah. So, I like that approach, too, because I think it’s um I think it’s more authentic than anything else and kind of meets people where they’re at, which I think is kind of the name of the game. I think a lot of people have trauma and that’s why they can’t like get in the shower or um and they have they need to address the trauma before we start forcing them to try to do this task that they feel like is impossible. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Compassion and empathy are the name of the game today. Um medication. Why are some people like we had it going on in our rounds this morning. Why do you think some people don’t want to engage in med medication uh management and what do you think the barrier to people engaging with that are in your experience? I think a lot of people have had bad experiences with medication, lots of side effects or um loss of libido like things that like anti-depressants can do and all that and people get turned off to them and just say, “Okay, I’m not going to try this.” And then there’s other people they’re just like, I’m just never putting that in my body. I never have, never will. Um and they want a more holistic approach. Well, thankfully we offer that. Yeah. But um we’re I mean we’re never going to push meds on people, but just educating like about maybe why they had more adverse effects to another medication than maybe something that we’re offering. Um we just provide education and let them make the decision. Yeah. Maybe one of the things too is that families, parents, loved ones, guests, whoever, at least I thought when I got into treatment that when I take this medication, it’s a life sentence and I’m going to be on this medication forever and the dose is going to have to go up. I’m going to have all these side effects. In your experience, are medications more seasonal or lifelong? It really depends on the person. Everybody is different, but I always recommend staying on whatever medication you’re on for at least 6 months before trying to think about coming off of it at all. And in that case, you should definitely go with a provider that can help you come off of it if that’s what you choose to do. But you got to give it at least 6 months to see. Um I mean, not if you’re having adverse effects, but if if you’re doing okay on it and not having side effects, like give it at least six months to see if it improves your life. Yeah, that makes sense. That’s really good advice, too. And suffice it to say, like, would this make sense? Like, there may be times, for example, I’ll just use my ADHD. There may be times, specifically when I got into treatment, where I just couldn’t sit still, keep my hands to myself, be present, focus on any of the material, engage in relationships. Um, and so I was on ADHD medication for probably three years and it helped kind of anchor me a little bit and helped me walk through a very kind of um, wild time in my early recovery. But then I found after three or four years that I was really dedicated to this passion that I had to walk with people in recovery and do this work. And so I was able to laser focus in on this thing and that season didn’t call for that same RX and I haven’t necessarily had to go back. But if I didn’t have it in my first three years, I don’t know if I’d be sober today. Mhm. So do you see that a lot too where it’s like this seasonality of for some folks um and then you process your trauma, you work through the issues, and then potentially you have a little bit of relief on the other side. Yeah, I’ve seen that. Okay, that’s huge too because I think sometimes with you know substance use recovery or medication management or the pharmacological approach whatsoever is I think some people assume that this is a life sentence and I have to be on this for the rest of my life. Yeah. Not necessarily. Yeah. I love that. I love that. That’s hopeful too. And there’s people like I have family members of mine that found a medication regimen that works really really well for them and they’ve been on it for 30 years. Yeah. And it’s all good. There’s ones like that too. Yeah, that makes sense, too. Um, one of my last questions that I’m really, really excited to chat with you about is I don’t think anybody sits in the position that you sit in as a medical supervisor, a provider, psychiatric, psychiatric nurse practitioner, a mom in recovery, um, without having an extraordinary extraordinary amount of passion to do this work. What is your why?
I mean, like I said, I’ve always wanted to help people. Um, but after having gone through traumatic experiences and making bad decisions with my mental health, how it was affected, um, almost ruining my life. Um I’m very passionate about helping people get to the same spot I’m in. And um seeing them recover when when I find someone that comes in in complete despair just in tears just I can’t fix this. I don’t know why I do this or I don’t know why I feel this way. And then, you know, we slowly work together with all the different things that we provide. And by the time they leave, they’re so relieved and so happy and have a smile on their face and are really hopeful. Um, that’s what I live for. So, I love that. I absolutely love that. And I have to imagine it was born or birthed out of a time when you wish that you had that or you felt like you didn’t. Oh, I wish I would have had a place like this when I was like that. Yeah. And I love that, too. And it what you said is so clear. It’s like if I can help one person not experience what I walk through and have the shame associated with that, I’m all in. That’s really, really cool. Yeah. So much shame I want to shelter everyone from because it’s just not necessary. Yeah. I love that you said that too. And I guess it’s not my last question. Um, but shame is probably a huge issue and a huge barrier for medical professionals trying to to say, “Hey, like I’m struggling with my mental health or I’m struggling with this, but because of the profession, which it should be the opposite. There should be like mental health health resources around every corner. These nurses are working 12-hour shifts three, four, five, six days a week. And then, you know, they’re experiencing big stories, big intense trauma, all these things.” and they’re like, “We’ll see you tomorrow. Have a good one.” You know, and so I really, really appreciate you coming on the show, being open-minded, compassionate, understanding, and authentic. I think it’s really, really important um for the viewers that are potentially seeking treatment, but the family members, the professionals that otherwise wouldn’t seek treatment without hearing a story like yours. So, I really, really appreciate that, Angela. Of course. Um, is there anything you would like to say to anybody watching right now who may be like, and you know, you know this is like having the phone in your hand and having the number up and just being like, “No, I’m not doing that. Yeah, I’m not doing that. All right, I’ll do it.” What would you say to somebody who’s right on the edge of making a one of the most courageous decisions in their life? What would you say to support them in that process? I mean, what do you have to lose? M like what you can continue how you are and feel as bad as you do all the time like you do or just take one step forward. Yeah. And that’s all you have to do. One step at a time. One step. Just one call. I love that. That’s beautiful. Yeah. And I always thought that too is I think somebody actually said that to me when I was getting sober. They’re like, “Well, you can always go back to this when you’re done.” I was like, “You promise?” They’re like, “I thought you hated it.” Yeah. It’s real bad. It’s real bad. But you if as long as it’s like okay and that that’s a courageous call to people out there is there was a point in my recovery right around 90 days where I sat down with Larry and he’s like I can’t promise you what your recovery is going to look like. All I can do is assure you that’s not going to be that. And I was like okay here we go. So thank you so much Angela. We really appreciate you coming on the show. Um, until next time my beautiful people. Peace.