Episode 161

Everybody’s going to be on their own journey. Everybody’s going to have their own steps to take. And I think what I need to be careful of when I’m helping somebody is not taking those steps for them. Now, I say I want individuals to see themselves in their own story, in their own recovery. It’s personalized, fits like a glove. this. But when you have somebody doing great work and they’re doing like phenomenal treatment and they’re reaching people where they’re at in the community and then you have somebody else that’s offering a different type of service and you connect those two people, dude, you just built a bridge that so many people can cross. So many people can cross that bridge and so many relation new relationships can be built off that.
Hey everybody and welcome to another episode of Finding Peaks. Yours truly, grateful recovering member of society. Chris Burns, president and founder, Peaks Recovery Centers. So grateful to be joined by a friend, colleague, um account executive over at Sunwave Human and Long-Term Recovery, dear friend of mine, uh Pierce. Welcome to the show, my friend. I’m so excited to be here. Yeah, it’s so exciting. I was thinking this morning when I was getting up looking at the mountains because I’m not from here as you know I’m from little small town in Oklahoma called Davis home of Turner Falls and uh so we don’t have these big beautiful peaks out here and I’m sitting thinking and and this happens to me consistently. I think how did I get here? Mhm. Like what got me here? Mhm. And it’s not and and sitting in this podcast today, I’m incredibly grateful. And it’s not that I feel like unworthy. It’s not that I don’t feel like I like I don’t have an imposttor syndrome, but it’s more like what am I doing here? Mhm. Like how did I go from being that young lost kid with no direction, no close tie to my family, no friends to sitting here knee to knee with you looking at pikes. Hey man, speaking on some experience, strength and hope. It’s a beautiful thing. Yeah. And one of which throughout my recovery and throughout my professional journey, I missed that opportunity to be present with that. Mhm. We were at I’ve talked about it on the show before, but since you brought it up, um I was sitting at the conference, maybe I mentioned it to you with Cassidy, and it was like our 12th year of setting up and you know, I’m 40 now and we’ve been out here a while and it was one of these things where like it’s okay to say like I I made it like I’m doing it. M and to recognize that and to sit with that and to become witness to that on a daily basis, I think is what creates like a lot of momentum and a lot of really good one days at a time and and and what can be like a celebration of life. And I think that’s kind of what you’re talking about. It’s like a wow. Yeah. You know, I said it last night in the, you know, and I believe in the spot in the Big B when it talks about rocketing like I I took that very seriously. I want to see what that felt like. Mhm. You know. Mhm. And now now I just want to share with people. Yeah. I just want to share with people and show people that like it is possible to step forth. So when I when I started my recovery journey um and I’m really looking forward to going through all this. It’s funny. I was in the bathroom right before we jumped in and I’m praying. I’m like just clear my mind, you know, clear my mind. Help me be present. And now I feel like my mind’s clear and I’m like, “Oh my gosh, what do I say? What do I talk about? Here we go. jumping in. But u there was a piece of my recovery journey that was so important. It it was it was it was uh it was my third course of treatment and uh it was right before I jumped in. I had been working at a nightclub as a as like a bouncer door watcher downtown Oklahoma was working at a nightclub as a like a bouncer washing off tables or whatever. And they came to me and they said, “Pice, we we see the work that you’re putting in. we want to make you the opener. And what came out of my mouth was, you can’t do that. I’m addicted. I’m addicted to heroin. And I don’t know what it was in that moment of just brutal honesty, but I had a decision to make. There was two forks in the road. There was a fork in the road that I could go on and keep living the life that I was living. I could go on to the end of that destiny, go find my dope dealer, get the next hit, disappoint my family again. But that’s okay because I’ve been living that way for so long. I know what to expect out of this path. Yeah. And then there’s the other way. And it’s like two steps into that path, you know, making that first phone call and then the rest of it shrouded in fog. There’s no visible line of sight of where I’m going to go. And I had to trust that. I had to trust that. And um you know, for anybody that’s like thinking about taking that step, that step, like I said, I didn’t know what I was about to get into, but because I took that step, I’m like sitting here in Colorado Springs with you. Yeah. You know, Yeah. It’s a crazy thing. I remember being at that inflection point too with my sponsor and being like, “But I don’t know what’s down that path.” And he’s like, “Yeah, and I can’t assure what it is, but what I can assure you is it won’t be that.” And that was so difficult for me and was causing so many problems in my life. I came to a point of willingness where I was like, “As long as you can promise it won’t be that, I’ll do handstands downtown naked. I don’t give a [  ] man. Let’s roll.” You know what I mean? Like we’re ready to go. Like you stay up, we jump. I don’t give, you know? we’re it’s on, you know, and that’s what it was for me. It was like because I didn’t believe I didn’t believe for a second people really stayed sober. Like the the idea and I’ve said it multiple times, but like I’ll go to AA with my mom and I thought it was a novel idea. It was so pimp. So they go in, you’re like, “Nobody drinks for an hour.” Well, I didn’t know that the other people didn’t drink for the rest of the day because then my mom would go get a six-pack, whatever. We like the thing. But I thought it was cool cuz she would show up sober and she would leave sober and that was the only time I saw her sober. So then like you get into this process and I’m like I it doesn’t work because my mom still had all these things and then I meet this subgroup of people hanging out in the unarian church that are like just kind of vibing, kicking it, doing their thing. And what was so cool to me was like seeing 25year-olds absolutely ascending in their lives. And that for me was like I was like a man in man I’ll follow those guys, you know. How old were you when you got sober? 22. 22. 22. I was a 23. Nice. I know. I always love 22 year olds that come in, man. I’m like, you me, we’re the same, you know? But it’s a good it’s a good age, but it’s a really tough age to get sober because what what you’re really asking a 22-year-old or a 23-year-old is to cash in their 20s in the way that they may have imagined it or the way that is synonymous with our culture. And that is so difficult about putting down that coping mechanism um throughout that really crucial developmental stage of life. Yeah. I think I think when you get to that point though, when you’re miserable enough, you’re willing to do whatever it takes to get out of it. And as as somebody that has experienced getting sober at 23, it really wasn’t like I mean, gosh dang. When you get down to that point where you’re just like so miserable about like everything you’re doing like you’ve like tarnished like your life. I’m just sitting in the basement of my father’s house playing video games for 26 hours a day, you know? There’s like no point in my life that isn’t surrounded with that stuff. Mhm. And um and I think when like one thing that you’re really good at is coming at at at recovery in this way that’s exciting. Like you want to like you pump people up. You get people excited about doing this. Like your life looks good. Yeah. You look like you have something that is worth it uh striving for and and going for and obtaining. And I think that’s that attraction rather than promotion. Yeah. Like we’re not trying to push it like we don’t want to push recovery down your throat. I’m going to pivot a little bit. Yeah. cuz something that that has been in my recovery journey lately is learning that everybody’s recovery journey looks a little bit different. Mhm. It’s a tough lesson. It’s a really tough lesson and it actually is like it’s born from some pain in my own life, you know. Um, but when I first got sober, I entered into a 12step program. And that like I think whatever helps you find life, whatever helps you come back to this, maybe not even come back to is the right way to say that. Find this new person that’s that is you. And you just want to jump up and scream at the top of your lungs. You just want to get out there and get excited about it and tell people this is the way to do it. This is how you want to do it. Yeah. M but what if your way isn’t the way that is for everybody else? Right. Right. Well, you’re talking about the you know oneizefits-all mentality and that’s the way we really used to approach it and like you I would put that AA flag. I mean you can imagine me on 12step mountain. I was on 12step mountain for six years straight meeting every single day. I was ask secretary of the largest meeting in Arizona. Like I was the dude. And if you told me for a second like you don’t do AA I’d be like what step did you not do? Talk to me about it. And I would just ra But that’s what I was talking about last night. People sit in front of me like this. [  ] man. Okay, man. I’ll do the steps. Jeez. But now it’s like, well, dude, have you have you gone for a walk lately? You know, um, you want to go for a walk with me? You know, and I really, to your point, I want to emulate what is possible, like an openness and a broadness to my approach so that the individuals sitting across from me can see themselves inside their own recovery. And I used to say, I want individuals to see themselves inside my story. Now I say, I want individuals to see themselves in their own story, in their own recovery. It’s personalized, fits like a glove, you know? So, I’m I’m with you on that, man. And that was really tough for me when we opened Peaks Recovery cuz I mean, I’m telling you, dude, everybody at Peaks Recovery for 6 months went to three meetings a day. I mean, you talk 21 meetings a week, working steps, getting service positions, doing the thing, 20 applications, all this stuff. Uh, and then I went and went to the Meadows cuz my life was on the outside was really, really good, but on the inside it was the worst it had ever been. And I went and learned about some authentic healing. And you’re sober. I’m sober. But that’s just a piece of it. Yeah. That’s just a piece. That’s just a piece. That’s right. That’s just a piece. I think it’s it’s a big piece to the foundation to start. Mhm. But it’s a small piece in regards to happiness. Yeah. You know, I think some people look at like, well, sobriety is going to inform mental health. And I think sometimes that’s what people get hung up when in 12step is like, I’m going to be mentally healthy because I just do this. I think it’s like a cold plunge really, man. And I think it’s like ancillary to a primary project and you have a lot of options and we got the cold and we got the sauna and we got the 12step and we got the jiu-jitsu gym and we got the mountain climbing club and we got the dharma recovery and we got the salt caves and we got the meditation. We got the Buddhist temple, we got the church, we got the prayer, we got the meditation, we put God in the room, we it’s beautiful. And when you start speaking like that to people, regardless of my belief and I’m authentic with it, I found that people will just like, “Dude, that sounds ripping, dude. I’ll go check out some Buddhist Dharma thing. Never done it before. Got cowboys sitting in Dharma. They’re like, “Fuck, this is cool.” You know, you get excited about it. It’s cool, man. This is like the things that brought you back to life, right? It’s going back to what I was saying a little bit. I kind of remember my train of thought. Um, it’s interesting sitting in a podcast like and like naturally when you’re having conversations with somebody, there’s not like cameras getting pointed directly at your face. Dude, I can’t tell you how many times in this podcast, like live where I’ve been like, especially when I first started, first three years, you’d be talking And I’d be like, like what are we talking about? Gone. Because I’m so nervous. I’m just trying to be like, okay, question three, question four, question five. And I’m like, I’d be sitting there, dude. Like a real good conversation apparently. And I’m just like, what is your name? You know, just boom. I’m like, I think God does that for me, man. He’s like, here, man, try this out. Get better. I’m going to try this. Well, jumping back into what I was saying, and it actually came up at the winter symposium. The winter symposium was really cool. was like super authentic connections there, right? I had never been to the Winter Symposium. I’ve been hanging hanging around Denver and Colorado Springs quite a bit, so I met a lot of the folks in the area, but then getting seeing everybody together and the com and the kind of community effort that’s put forth and making sure that the right connections are in place. It’s my bread and butter. Love being a connector of people. That’s like my that’s like my genuine passion. I want to learn what you do and I want to learn what they do and I want to learn how we can do that together. And I think there’s a really there’s a really special moment in that when you can connect people. But man, back to what I was saying with the, you know, getting excited about your own recovery.
Everybody’s going to be on their own journey. Everybody’s going to have their own steps to take. And I think what I need to be careful of when I’m helping somebody is not taking those steps for them. Mhm. Because I really want to, right? Like and and then that inflection point when there was two paths to take and I took the one that was shrouded in fog. I needed it to be shrouded in fog. I didn’t need to be able to see down that path. I had to have faith and I had to walk down. Y I had to trust the people that were right in front of me saying, “Hey, there’s a good life on the other end.” But you’re not going to be able to get here unless you take those steps yourself. And so when you step into it and you find then you find life, you get really excited about it. You want to tell everybody about that thing and you want to help people walk along their journey. But that but you know the the with the more time that I’ve spent in recovery I’ve learned like hey people are going to be on their own journeys and what we really need to do is support that journey. Of course when somebody first gets sober like their ideas are going to be nuts and you probably need to do some tailoring to those ideas. You know like I don’t need to go hang out with some old friends back in the old hood I used to hang out with. I don’t need to go burning and gunning like that. I need somebody to say hey Pierce that’s not a good idea. How about you come to a meeting with us? How about you pivot that idea? I know it sucks to pivot that idea. I know it sucks to maybe say goodbye to that, but how about you come over here and you help and and you come through. But often times what I see in our recovery community is that people will get here. They’ll find this life. They’ll get really excited about it and they won’t transition out of that phase of like what I needed in the beginning maybe not what I maybe isn’t what I need now. I need to find some new way of Mhm. So when I when I think about the 12 steps, I think about the purpose that they’ve fulfilled in my life. Well, when I’m get first getting sober, like I don’t have any principles. I don’t I don’t live my life by principles. I lie. I cheat. I steal. I cheat. I um I I go out of my way to make sure that I need that I get what I need. And if there’s somebody in the way, I’m going to make sure that that that person is removed from my path so I can go at any means necessary. And often what’s that what that looks like is hurting people. like I hurt a lot of people. And so what the 12 steps did for me, broken down real easy, is they just gave me a guide of life. Behind each of the 12 steps is a principle. Principles like honesty, perseverance, faith, courage, um integrity, uh service. These are things that I don’t know and I need a program like a structured program around me to teach me those principles. How do I put that into action? Right? How do I get courageous enough to tell somebody that of all the secrets that I hold in my heart? How do I get courageous enough to do that? Well, there’s four more steps before that to get you to that place, right? There’s four more steps you can take before it’s time to share all your secrets, right? And I needed that. I needed that structure. And I still need that, right? But as my recovery grows, as my network grows, as my people around me grow, as the like like we were mentioning, those titans that are around me, those those living titans, those pillars in that are in my life. Um, how do I continue to grow that? And part of that journey has been learning how to approach people in a way that makes recovery look fun. And I’m not forcing it down their throat, right? I’m meeting them where they’re at. And we get to connect on a very like we get to connect on a human level. Mhm. And um yeah, that’s a that’s a that’s a part of the journey that I’ve been on lately and it’s been a lot of fun. Yeah. Trying to find that little piece. I love what you said, too, cuz it’s like, you know, when I got into 12step in my first year, I hope in my fifth year, I’m not fighting the same things I was in my first year. It’s a completely different box of box of goods and you got to treat it that way. And different seasons require different reasons. you know, TJ, we got to hang out with TJ last night, and I really love he’s he was an old 12step. He did 12step for 10, 15 years, and now he’s on he’s developed his own uh conscious recovery. It’s actually really cool. I think it’s great. And um he goes on to talk a lot about like great clinicians, like great helpers in this world, um are the people that just show up whole and perfect. And and that’s a lot of the essence of his conscious recovery is that everybody comes into this world whole and perfect and then the environment happens in these things. But it’s reminding you of that wholeness and perfection. And so he talks about like really great therapists coming into the room and just holding a space of wholeness and perfection. like like I come in and and I sit with you in a way that that without saying a word shows you emulates to you and you receive energetically how valuable you are because I know how valuable I am as a human, right? And he talks a lot about that and he talks about what it what it disconnects is oftentimes polarity and trying to help people meaning like I have the solution, you have the problem, follow me. It creates a bit of a disconnect. Whereas I think people in longerterm recovery, even big 12 steppers, they have a a a a a maturation to them where they can exist in a lot of different spaces, but still in that 12step way of life, you know, in service to others. Um picking up my trash, not littering, pushing my cart in. These very simple things, making amends whenever necessary. Um journaling a daily, you know, tent step. These are things that I’ve done nearly five days a week since I left the program almost 10 years ago. Like they’re just ingrained in my life. And those are the components that I be continue to share with others. It’s like community, service, integrity, perseverance, honesty, courage. These are dope ass things. And what I love about AA is it’s a bunch of competitive people in there, of course. And there’s no finish line. You know what I mean? Like you have so much integrity. Like you won, right? you you do so much service that you just serviced yourself. Yeah. So like you’re so honest like you’ve you know you’re right there and that’s what kept me coming back for more which is really cool. Yeah. I think I and I too need to be very careful in what I’m what I’m saying because I know today what I what the words that come out of my mouth can are um you know as somebody that’s stepped into into this journey what the words that I come that are coming out of my mouth can be very dangerous to the newcomer potentially if I’m misrepresenting something man that can be very dangerous to the newcomer if I say man you don’t have to go to the meeting right every day right I don’t go to a meeting every day but you and so That means me must mean you don’t have to go to a meeting every day. And my my strongest words of encouragement are when you first get sober, you need to do every single possible thing you can do to get yourself involved in every single way. Mhm. I don’t think there’s a time limit on when you can start to be of service. Mhm. In fact, I know there ain’t no time limit on when you can be of service. Yeah. You know, it would be like a time limit on feeling good. You know, that would be a time limit on feeling good. Yeah, you’re you on a time limit on feeling good. I’m trying to help you feel better, you know. Actually, it’s it’s taking out the trash at my clubhouse. Something about it, man. That was like the thing that connected me to the people in that group. Yeah. You know, service changes over time. Yeah. You’re the ticket guy, you’re this butt guy or you’re the coffee guy. Like I was the coffee guy. Yeah. You know, if you’re making coffee, man, you’re the dude. You get to know everybody. You just know everybody. That’s cool. So, jumping in. Jumping straight in. How old were you when you had your first kid? I was 19. 19. That’s cool. Mhm. All right. How So your oldest is seven. My oldest is eight. Eight. Okay. Boy. Yep. Okay. And you have four kids? I have three. Three. Three boys. Let’s go, dude. I was raised like an 8-year-old, a 5-year-old, and a 2-year-old. Okay. They’re a whole lot of fun, man. Yeah. And my first one was born in my addiction. Really? Yeah. My second one is the only My second one I was 6 months sober when he was born. Mhm. So, conceived during my addiction, but I got sober. And that was a really interesting thing to have to try and navigate. Like, how do I live in sober living, but also be a dad? Oh my gosh, man. That’s, you know, I had all this I was talking last night about it to somebody and I was like, man, I used to do when I went to treatment, I’m like, you know, my mom, she was worse. Yeah, I did heroin with her and she did drugs and all this. And then I only come to realize like everybody’s doing the best they can, man. you know, and and she had me at like 19, 20, you know, so like she kept me alive. I feel like that’s a really big deal at 19 or 20. Like me at 19 or 20, like I don’t turn the bathtub off. Like I’m not in a good place. And so shout out to you for being here with all your kids, man. Oh, buddy. It’s, you know, and very quickly after that, quickly after that, you were you found your your recovery pretty. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, I did like a little foxhole prayer. Okay. with my first um before my first son was before we ever found out he was pregnant. I’m going to dig a little deeper. This is this is that piece of the honesty in this in this in this show that I want to get out there, you know, cuz I think it’s I think it’s I think it’s there’s something really genuine about being open and honest about things. So I found out um I had I I was living with my mom for a while for most of my life. And uh she she just couldn’t handle me anymore. And so she sent me over to my dad’s house. My dad is a flight attendant. And my dad has a quite a nice home. I mean, he’s pretty big. Yeah. And uh but he’s gone 5 days a week. And what does a what does an 18-year-old do with a father that’s not in his nice home for 5 days a week? I’m throw some rager parties. Yeah, there’s some raers and um I was at it was one of my parties that I just separated myself from the group. It was all it was all kind of crashing down around me like that that lifestyle wasn’t it’s not sustainable, man. It’s not sustainable. It doesn’t after a while it doesn’t feel good anymore. It’s not fun. After a while, you’re doing it just because like well I really don’t have any control over why I’m doing it. I don’t even know why I’m doing it for the most part. I don’t I don’t like most of these people in my home, but I’m doing it anyway. And um and my girlfriend and she comes home and I’m like tripping acid, you know, with all these people in the house and she’s like, “Pice, I need to talk to you.” Two weeks before that, I had a foxhole prayer. I had stepped away from one of the parties and I prayed, “God, send me something. Send me something to get me out of this life.” And so two week about two weeks later, she came to me. She’s like, “Pierce, I need to have a conversation with you. I just found out I’m pregnant.” And so, you can imagine 18-year-old Pierce like tripping. Yeah. Just this whole house full of people. I don’t know what I’m going to do, but in the moment, I just knew I was an answer. That was an answered prayer. Mhm. The worst of my addiction was yet to come. Unfortunately, you know, he’s eight and I’m 5 years sober. The worst of my addiction was yet to come, but it started it was the kind of like the catalyst that pushed me into into it. And so being a dad, being a young dad has its difficulties, right? Like there’s a lot of pieces. There’s a lot of things that I would change if I could. Like um like being a single dad is difficult. I don’t get to I don’t get to live in I don’t get to live in a home with my boys. I get to spend time with them and they come and stay with me, but I don’t get to be there dayto day. And that’s hard. Yeah. That’s been difficult. Um, and when I when my second son was born, I was in sober living. That’s not ideal. That’s not where I saw myself. Um, and then then, you know, my third son is born and like I said, they don’t, you know, I’m a single dad and that has its troubles that it’s struggles, but I’ve surrounded myself with men that are on in the same vein, on the same journey with me. And um and what I’ve what I’ve learned is all this stuff is happening for a reason. All these things, all these pieces, all these gifts. Mhm. I have these gifts in my life for a reason. Um exactly what the reason is yet, I don’t know. But I I think I think I know. As you’re sitting here talking, I’m just thinking to myself like I think our kids actually need to see need to see our humanity, man. I think they need to see that humans struggle. I think they need to see dad, including myself, do things that they know are unhealthy and that I’ve labeled as unhealthy. And they need to continue to see me to do them. And then they need to see me stop. And I think that’s the profound spot I think that we miss in all of it is like I carry shame or guilt because X, Y, and Z. But really the the bread and butter on the backside is like and we have the ability to stop these negative behaviors, improve our lives and create light for others. And I think that’s more profound than not having gone through it at all. Quite frankly, I I look at, you know, my dad drank his entire life, never drew a sober breath. You know, had had he at 20 gone to treatment, I mean, we’ve been through a lot, man. My dad was tough on me. I would have been like, “That’s my [  ] dad.” Talked about it all the time, man. And so, I don’t think there’s any mistakes, only lessons as long as we move forward and get better as a result. And and that’s that’s what I want to teach my kids. There’s no perfect slice of pie in this world. Daddy is not perfect. Like, I’m imperfect. I make mistakes. Sometimes I don’t talk to your mom the way I should. Sometimes I don’t show up with you guys the way I should. But I want you to know that I can own when I’m wrong and I can get better. It’s called an amends. And that’s what AA taught me. And not just to show up to make amends, to make amends, because I can make amends all the time to make amends. Now I’m a changed behavior, right? And I want you to call me on it. And now I have a relationship with my kids, too. Because even though I was sober when I had my kids, I was a disconnected father. I was struggling with mental health issues. I was soaked in this like money labyrinth that I thought was had a quality of life in it and it didn’t. And so I’m here to say that I’ve been able to correct a lot of that and do these certain things. And it’s unfortunate sometimes because with our kids, like I was telling you last night, it’s like they’re suffering from what I suffered from two years ago, I just have to be on the right path sustainably for a long time for them to move on with me. But I don’t get it twisted at all. Like our kids are generally speaking spitting images of us. So I think what you did is actually really really cool. I know a lot of people that are parents right now at the facility that really have a difficult time finding any. I also think that that the journey that um that I’m on as a father is uh cuz like cuz who I used to be and who I am today are completely different. Who I the father that I was a year ago versus the father that I am today is completely different. Right. We learn our lessons as being a dad. We move on. We we take those lessons we take those pieces that maybe wrapped in a little bit of shame. Mh. You know like I was saying like getting getting honest about that saying my kids don’t leave my home. Man, that comes with so much shame, dude. It comes with so much shame. I actually got sweaty sitting here and I was like, I don’t know if I should have shared that. But it’s important to share that thing because I’m not the only person going through that. There’s other there’s other young men out there that are in the same position I am. And then so, you know, taking a couple steps into the journey of being a single dad. What does it look like? Well, it looks like spending very intentional time with your kiddos. Yeah. It looks like making some sacrifices and not always doing what you want to do. Mhm. because it’s really easy for me to do what I want to do, right? Because of course it’s what I want to do. But what about when I sacrifice that time and I go spend it with my kiddos and I go we go do some kind of fun adventure or I teach sit down and I teach them the lessons that I’ve learned in a very like like very like like fundamental Yeah. way, but I get to take the experiences that I that I’ve had through life through with that with them having them walking their journey with them. I get to share that with them and like I think all together build this beautiful bond that we have as a son and father and uh grow together. Um I’m going to pivot pivot just a little bit cuz when going back to like stepping into sobriety I never thought things like this would be possible today. Right. And something that I shared with you recently was music. Yeah, bro. Shared some music. Get out of here with that [  ] man. Tell the people. Yeah. Tell the people about the music, dude. Dude, here’s the cool part about Here’s the cool part about stepping into that fog. Things are going to happen in your life that you weren’t expecting. When did you start playing music? Beautiful things, man. I I started playing I started playing the drums before I could write my last name. So, just [  ] And I remember Yeah, I remember that. That’s cool. I got So, I got my first drum set like a really childish drum set when I was uh for Christmas one year. I had to have been no no older than 5 years old. Okay. And my uh mom and dad, they put me in guitar lessons, which is funny. I had that drum set at home and I had a guitar at home. They thought I might be more interested in the guitar. So, they put me in the guitar lessons. And in that lesson, that very first lesson, he taught me how to spell my last name. He he told me I needed to clip my fingernails so I could play the guitar, right? And and taught me how to spell my last name. But the whole time through that lesson, all I could hear in the back was was the backbeat of some drums. Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. I told him, I was like, “I want to know what that is.” And he’s like, “Okay, we’ll go check it out after this lesson.” He opened the door to those two drum sets. One was blue, one was white. And um there was my first drum teacher was sitting in there. His name was Bill. And Bill was dude, his double bass work just top notch heavy metal. He’s a heavy metal guy. Played in a heavy metal band. They were in a touring band. And when uh man, I locked eyes with him, locked eyes with those drum set, and that’s it. He tell that’s my passion. Like my true passion. I’ve been playing since I was probably six or seven. There’s been some off times in there, you know. Um there’s been some times where I stopped playing for a couple of years. I just kind of like lost the passion for it, right? But it never really left me. I think um and then so in playing drums, going through life, dude, uh one of the times that I put it down was through my addiction. Yeah. I put it down. It was the only thing that I didn’t sell. So, I sold everything but my drums. I told you all my friends that are musicians are drummers, man. I’ve had so many stories where my like I’m with my friend as they’re getting their drums back like for the first time and rec. Dude, epic. So cool. So cool. Yeah. But I’ve growing up I either wanted to be a rock star, a Power Ranger, or an Imagineer for Disney. It’d be so cool to be a rockstar, dude. So, I you hear me talk about you. I’m like, dude. Yeah. Yeah. It’s so cool. Turns out I’m not going to be a Power Ranger. Yeah. Probably not. Not this year. Not not gonna put the work in. I want not gonna put put the work in for to be an Imagineer for Disney. Yeah. But I’m on this like little journey of being a rock star. Yeah. So, the Daniel Card Band. Mhm. How did you say you were going to tell me how did that come to be? And they are groovy, you guys. I’m telling you right now. And I’m not I’m pessimistic at best with your playlist. And so, like like I man but like you you sent that through and I’m like and you caught me at the perfect time when I’m in the sauna. I like to listen to books and I like to read inspiring [  ] and I like to listen to new music. And you hit it and I just hit it and I was like, so the Daniel Card Band, man, this this is great. They just released their album. It’s I every song’s good, but there’s like eight bangers. Tell us about it. There are a few bangers in there, man. So, uh, my u, our Dan, our lead singer, the our group kind of knew that Dan was looking to play with some guys. And so, he hooked up with our guitarist Brooks. And him and Brooks started to go play different shows around Oklahoma, just little small things, little like acoustic gigs. And then Brooks and I ran into each other at one point. He knew I played the drums. I knew he played the guitars. He’s like, “Why don’t you come and join the band?” So, we joined the band. The bass player got pulled into it. How long ago were you was that? That was probably 3 years ago. Oh wow. 3 years ago. So we all got linked together and our first practice was in the sober house garage and uh in the in the sober house that I was managing. That’s right. We didn’t have anywhere else to practice. So we practiced so that was and um and so we were all sitting there in that we we came up we coined our name from where we all got sober. Um, it’s the Daniel Card Band in the It’s the Daniel Card in the class of 39. And if you know, you know. If you know, you know. If you know, you know. That’s cool. And so we were sitting there in that in our little first practice and Mickey was like, “You have two years sober. You have two years sober, you have one year sober, I have 35 years sober, we have 39 years of sobriety combined in this in this band right now.” And so it was just like this little Godwink of this little, you know, this little kiss from the universe saying, “Hey, you guys are you guys are supposed to be here.” And the class of 39 that the 39 and that name does not come from the amount of time that we had. So that we just found that out on off coincidence. That’s funny. And then we started uh we started playing some shows around town. Dan had recorded an album with the Turnpike Trouidors before we all those songs he had been riding with Kenny and stuff. They uh he recorded that stuff with with the Turnpike Trouidors and then that’s when after that album came out we all kind of linked together started playing shows slowly but surely writing all this writing all this music that’s on the the newest album and we we’ve been we’ve been playing that that music for a year. What it’s on the album? Mhm. Oh, cool. Oh, no. I’m sorry. About two years. Oh, wow. Two and a half years we’ve been playing that music that’s on the album now. And so we’ve taken all that stuff and um Dan put all the investments necessary to create a professional album and here we are. Yeah. Even the album cover I think is like like that couch is dope. Like it’s a yellow couch. The album name was supposed to be things that don’t belong really and so we took all this like crazy random crap brought it out through the forest. It’s cool. Set it up. Everybody’s got to listen to it, man. I’m fanboy, you know. We’re here for it. That’s freaking cool. And the story makes it even cooler. So, I’m just going to summarize what you said and then I’m going to I’m going to rep the album. Yeah, that’s dope, man. How long How long did it take to actually get in the studio and like the studio time take took like 3 weeks like front to back? Because you guys are really well verssed in the songs. We’re super well versed in the songs. Whereas if somebody’s writing new music and they’re going to produce it, I’m sure people that have like re tons of resources, they just write in the studio and [ __ ] get in there and just get get after it. Yeah, man. Yeah. That’s so cool, dude. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and and that music stuff, man, that plays a that plays a big part of like one of the things that I’m really passionate about is helping young people find that like there’s there’s going to be so much more to your recovery than what you think is going to happen. Whatever you think is going to happen, toss it. Throw it out. That’s not what’s gonna I mean like the if you were to write on a list what would your life was going to look like and you’re like third day of being in rehab for sure. Write out that list. Dude that dude just throw that list out the window. It’s not going to look like that. Yeah. You’re going to underell yourself. Super underell yourself. You’re like I will die a house manager. And you’re like wait what? Yeah. He said 10 bucks an hour. Please God. You know 10 bucks an hour. I’m just like, man, imagine you could just get it to 15. I know, man. It was different when I Things weren’t as expensive when I got sober, but you know, you could make minimum wage, which was 725 an hour back then, and you could basically split an apartment with somebody and that was it. Minimum wage and split an apartment. Mhm. I take that back, man. His mom was paying for a bunch of Yeah, that’s not possible. That’s not possible. So, I love that, man. you got the music and and maybe to your point, you know, you 5 10 years from now, it’s it’s like you’re doing this music thing and it’s in recovery and it’s it’s this nonprofit
when you have passion and purpose driven into it. Mhm. You know, passion and the purpose is is what is what’s been driving it. So, how big what’s the biggest show you guys have played? Like a couple hundred people. Yeah, we played a show of 250 people at a place called the Goddard Center. Okay. It was our first ticketed show. Really? and we have a lot of family and friends and you know some some people that we’ve reached in the community up to that point. Um we hadn’t even released the album yet. We packed out the Goddard Center 250 people. That’s talk about stepping into uncomfortability. Yeah. I’m telling you man, there’s something about like getting in front of growing up I was super shy. Really really shy. Like I’ve always been pretty shy. those that drum set has made has like has made getting on stage speaking to people talking to people something that like has been has become more natural because when you get on stage man we used to we we get on stage for like three four hours at a time and luckily I have that drum set in front of me right I’m not the lead singer that’s got the full you know I can hide behind my drum set but like being playing the drums and pursuing that passion and getting ourselves in front of people and then getting all the way up to that point where we played a ticketed show at Goddard in Ardmore, Oklahoma. That was kind of like this pivotal moment. Something really interesting happened to me there. Um
I I I consistently have it in my head that like once I reach this point, I’m going to fulfill like a certain level of happiness that I didn’t that like that I don’t have right now, but oh, once I get to that point, I’m going to lock it in. We played Goddard and and it was a lot of fun, but it was like what’s next? Yeah. But I think, you know, when you get to a point, it’s it’s always like that. I’ve talked about this book so many times, but I [  ] love it so much. It’s called Greatness, but this guy wrote it and he basically says, and he’s he’s a sports psychologist, and anyway, the the the the ethos of it is that greatness is defined as selfless exceptionalism. And it’s not what you have or what you’ve done, but it’s what can you do with your God-given ability to make the world around you a better place. Mhm. And that’s speaking of like people that are in the upper echelon of their field, the highest of the high, the 0.00001, the billionaires, the people with the pot of gold, all the things, the ascension, you turn on the TV, everybody’s trying to get there. Everybody wants more and they’re trying to get there. I remember I used to be there be like I’d make a huge paycheck more than, you know, and and then I’m like, I’m already spending the next one on a spreadsheet and then I’m spending the next one because I more more more. And so I think sometimes it comes down to like being connected, you know, and being where your feet are. And I that’s why I always talk about Echer Toll on the show because he he talks about suffering outside of the present moment. And that’s the only spot that suffering lives. If I can be at the Goddard place with the 250 people pres Yeah. Be where my feet are, you know, and as you go through the journey, as you are where your feet are, I think we’re able to have so much more joy and excitement. So, I was dropping off my burner doodle yesterday. This goes along with the story. You might not think it, but it’s [  ] good. I’ve done this twice. My burner doodle, he gets so excited, dude. And it used to make me really mad. It doesn’t make me mad anymore. Yeah, cuz I changed it. So, he gets so excited, bro. He gets so excited he he pals, right? I bring him to the facility all week. Last week, brought him to the facility every day. He ples. And I remember myself getting kind of mad. I was walking to the facility the other day. I was walking into the groom the other day. I’m like, he’s probably going to [  ] p. And I thought to myself, like, and I tell everybody when I walked in, I was like, “Can you imagine on a Tuesday, you get so excited as a human, you piss your pants?” I mean, what a [  ] Tuesday. Like, if you could do that once in your life through pure joy and excitement, you just leak yourself like because you can’t control it cuz you’re so excited. So, I’ve reframed that [  ] man. I’m just like, I love you, River. You’re going to pedal because you’re having a great day. you’re having the best and I’m going to come behind you. I’m going to wipe it up because I’m having a better day because I get to see you have a great day. And I told the person in the thing, I was like, “Can you imagine?” She looked at me. She’s like, “No shit.” Like if you pissed yourself on a Wednesday. What a great day. A great day. Simple. Yeah. A great day. You know, so I’ve been doing a lot of reframing lately because these issues and these problems in my life are it just about every single one of them are something that I’ve prayed wholeheartedly for. Yeah. Just bring it to me. Just bring it. And now God and the universe like, “Yeah, we’re here.” Just bring it. I just want to be with it. Yeah. You know, just bring it. And I should I should say, man, that Goddard thing, I’m going to pivot and reframe that a little bit cuz like the way that I described it a second ago of like reaching that place and then being like, okay, what’s next? I don’t think that’s a completely accurate representation of the way that I felt in that moment. The way that I felt in that moment was like one, I can’t I cannot believe that I’m here right now. I cannot believe that I’m playing in front of my family and my friends behind this drum set that I love so much. Mhm. A drum set that I love so much that I didn’t give that one thing away. That’s the only one thing I didn’t give away in my life. The drums are just part of my They’re just part of me. And I never thought getting to that place would even be possible. But here I am playing in front of all my friends nervous as hell, right? Like an hour in, you don’t just go into like a like a auto automatic mode. Not that show. No. But like normally like if you’re doing it, you’re just like, you’re not even thinking. 100%. Oh, I love that. It’s cool. 100%. It’s like flowing. You know how jiu-jitsu is like one of those things that’s like now built into your nervous system. Like the way you move, the way you like come like come up underneath people, wrap people up. That’s the way the drums are for. If I hear it in the other room, I’m like thinking of like all the different variants of that beat. How can we intertwine that with with the tune that I’m thinking of? That’s just the way, you know, when you play that long, when you practice as long as you’ve been, you know, that that stuff comes to be. But that show, no, I didn’t. I never got in. No. No, I never blow it. No, I couldn’t blow. It’s just song after song, song after song. I’m just so nervous sitting up there like and the drummers kind of got us started, too. It’s interesting about you being shy and being a drummer. One of my best friends, Kyle, he’s a ripping drummer. I was talking about him yesterday. He liked the drums cuz he was in the back. Just get me off of that and he could just be behind his thing and do his thing. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It’s been part of the journey. It’s like uh like if I’m if I consistently like to find things that I’m afraid to do. You’ll be humbled to know that I only look at the drummer. Like to just be clear. Yeah. Like I’m like look at that dude just raging like raging and I am like whole time. Well, it’s like you’re hiding. That’s like what you feel, right? Yeah. You feel that beat. Oh yeah. Coover is going to be like, “Hey, you tap tap the mic. Tap the mic.” Yeah. It’s that that kick drum, man. It’s just kick drums. That’s what you feel. Uh that’s what you feel. I’m really excited that you’re pushing back into a passion. You know, like throughout my journey over the last 18 years, you see a lot of artists that just can’t find the place to paint and do their art. And people along the way along their journey have told them things like, “Don’t do that. You ought to get a real job.” Or, “You ought to do this and stop doing that.” And so people get into recovery and they forget that they paint and they need to paint every day. It’s it’s my opinion that When you’re a painter, we got to touch that. When you’re a drummer, like we move into our passion every day, even if it’s just a touch. And it doesn’t mean I have to make money, but maybe I will someday and that’s okay. So, I’m just really big on the artist community, like building them up and like Yeah. because you talk about the guitarist and that these sad stories, man. And I I read into people’s memoirs and I’m so intrigued by people that play music and how they get there and uh and how they’re able to speak through their music and sometimes they’re not able to speak in any other kind of setting. It’s very interesting to me. It’s very complex. They’re very cool people. Very unique, very intricate, very thoughtful, you know, and I and I’m not and I want to be. And so I I think I a lot of artists. Well, you’re you’re an artist. Yeah. You’re an artist own way. You just paint differently. Yeah. You just paint different. Yeah. So I love that, man. Let me know when the next album’s coming out, but we got to get you out here at the Black Sheep. We got this dingy ass thing. It’s been around forever. I was telling Pierce about it. It’s feels like it’s like underground. There’s like one door. There’s no windows. But man, you can get close enough to the stage where you can like feel feel them like picking the strings. It’s so cool. You guys would I would make sure we sell that thing out. I feel like it’d be a lot of fun. We’re still working out our sound, you know? That’s like part of being like a like you can go into the studio and you can record this like perfect album or whatever, but you’re still going to be working on the sound. That’s true, man. Yeah. Like we have all this like perfect production going on and like the producer can add things in here and there. Yeah, but as a as a as a still like new like I consider us still a newly found band, we’re still trying to tweak that sound, but playing shows is the way we do it. I love it, man. And it’s got a jig to it, man. Makes you want to tap your foot. Yeah. Especially Good Luck, Godspeed. So good. Good luck. I’m gone. Maybe I’m gone. You know, man, I’m a fanboy. When I start Cass will come in the garage. She’d be like, “Do you have this song on repeat your whole workout?” I’m like, “Yeah, they only released two songs on the album.” Yeah. She’s like, “You’re [  ] bad.” just slammed the door. I’m like, “Yeah, get out of here. We’re running it.” You know, and I’m just over and over and over. Yeah. So, I know a lot of words to a lot of the songs, but we’ll get her down. Like, if I come see you, I’ll know all the words. I’ll be I’ll be out there. Come on. Come and you’ll know cuz I’ll be I’m telling you, I was dancing to it the other day and I’m the guy at the concert guy out there like literally like moving and grooving harder than anybody that’s got a [  ] 18 pack in them or anything, whatever. And so, like I go to your show and I’ve already danced to your jigs. I will create the biggest dance mosh pit. Like you will be like you’ll feel the vibration, bro. And I’ll just be like, you know, I’m that guy. Hypes me up. I’m that guy, dude. Like jumping like we’re jumping now about getting in tune. Yeah. So talk to me about like I’m going to ask you the question after we talk about this, but like the ascension and the move into like being a recovery professional, separating the two and and what has that been like for you throughout the journey? that has actually been you know with respect to your sobriety like quite a long journey. Working in the behavioral health field has been a a critical part of my journey. It’s it’s been um so uh got sober out at a place called Country Road Recovery Center. I don’t imagine there’s a lot of recovery places in Oklahoma. There’s not. Okay. But that was in Oklahoma. But Country Road Recovery Center was in Oklahoma. It’s 135 acre ranch out in Tecumpsa. It’s got to be extended care. It it was 90 days. Lovely. I love it. Yeah, it was 90 days. Um I I did two treatment episodes out there. So I you know after that third one I I fell in love with being in that space. I felt like I told my therapist one day he was like I was like dude I my happy place is in treatment. He was like you have a very expensive happy place. Yeah that’s going to be a tough one. You might as well choose four seasonough but it’s what it’s what was there you know that’s what I had. That’s what brought me back to life. I get it man. I get it so much. Especially as a young guy. I wanted to work as a tech. I really wanted to sit along. It’s like sit across the table and as I’m passing their meds be like, “Hey, how are you doing today? What are you going through?” Like, “What are you feeling? Talk to me.” If you’re mad, come and find me. I’ll sit with you. If you’re happy, if there’s something really cool going on in life, you just connect. You know, you just connected with the universe today. Everything made sense. You know what recovery feels like. You got it locked in. You’re going to be this way forever. Come find me. You know, let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about what it looks like to walk through your pains, your, you know, your times of depression where you don’t want to talk to anybody. Man, come find me. I want I want to serve the community in that way. I wanted to be a behavioral health tech because there was somebody that did that to me. The first amends I ever made was there was a tech out at Country Road. Um, this is around the time COVID was happening and he had a mask. He didn’t have a mask on and he said he was sick and I cussed him out. I was like, “How could you do this to us?” I didn’t think there was CO in Oklahoma. Everyone’s going to say, “No, do that.” There wasn’t hearing any spraying. No, I’m just kidding. No, I’m just kidding. But uh but he he just he he walked me through that, helped me see like, “Hey, you know, if you’re when you’re ready to come and talk to me about it, come and talk to me. We’ll talk it through. We’ll figure it out.” So, I slammed the door and I was out. But I came back to him and he taught me what making amends was. Mhm. It’s just those pivotal pieces of working with people in in you know people in treatment, working with those that are going through treatment. There was something about that connection that I just was drawn to. And so after um after I graduated the program about 8 months later or so, I was invited back to be um a behavioral health tech. Sweet. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. So I got to serve in that in that way for 4 months. I got to be part of that community. I got to be back where I got sober like pour into those people fresh and you’re really valuable at that level really cuz your alumni I mean dude and you just you know getting close to a year like they could miss my information but someone like you shows up and they’re like oh [  ] okay you know it sucks here sometimes right you know yeah and I also I’m back in my happy place or whatever yeah exactly why do you think why do you think people feel so good when they’re in a good treatment program.
Well, I can speak for myself. Yeah. Why do you think it felt so good? I felt like I finally found my people. I was treated with respect. Yeah. I was treated with love. I was treated with compassion. Yeah. Forgiveness. Yeah. They treated me as somebody that had integrity. When I had yet to ever figure out what integrity actually was. Um and they spoke to me. They spoke my language to me. They said, “Hey, Pierce, you’re not okay right now.” Right. But you’re going to be. Mhm. And it’s okay not to be okay. And they taught me that. Yeah. They taught me that. They spoke the language of the heart. Yeah. They taught me what that was like. It’s interesting because the same way that you the same reason you thrive in recovery today is because of the same reason you thrived in treatment. It’s the same thing. It’s the same thing. I I have to be seen, valued, heard in community. It’s just unfortunate that when I get to a place like Peaks Recovery or the place out in Oklahoma, I haven’t been seen, valued, heard, or anything outside of my family for years. Yeah. I have to have that in community. It feels good, dude, to know I’m valuable cuz I kind of threw myself away and I feel like you were trying to kind of throw me away. So, it’s a see value hurt and and now you’re in treatment and I remember going back for my third time to the same place. I’m like, I just here I had an inability to create community. I didn’t have the value. But then you get plugged into a you start doing it. But that’s what your life is today. Like everything you described is everything my life is today. I’m sure the same exact thing. I think that I think in treatment I just was like like met with love. I just was met with love. And it reminds us it’s possible. It’s possible 100%. It’s possible. And I think I was fed some good food. Got some good sleep. So good. So good. Dude, even me and Bobby back to the office, man. I’ve been to treatment. I mean, when I went to the Meadows, but it was it was intensive. I had my phone. I could leave and go get a steak if I wanted. Um, but yeah, it was a good treatment. But Bobby and I talk, you know, we we uh wax about it 18 20 years ago. This hike and this hike and that story. And it’s like, you know, cuz I didn’t go to traditional college. I felt I often ask people to go through college. I’m like, “What’s that like, man? What’s the time of your life?” Like, you move away from home, you get autonomy, dad gives you 200 bucks a week, you get some fast food, whatever. Like, what is that like? Because I was doing treatment and I was in sober living. we were doing that college, that university, which I would imagine is pretty similar like in a way, but I think people think it’s like so different, but it’s it’s really not. It’s developmental. It’s the same thing. It’s developmental. It’s community. It’s building. Yeah. But I four months into that gig, I was asked to be a part of the missions admissions department and admissions was a whole thing for me. I was terrified to answer the phone. I mean terrified to answer the phone. It was petrifying. Yeah. Like when I thought about that phone ringing and me have to answer that to a stranger. Mhm. I probably had my boss do 10 example calls just show me but just keep showing me keep showing me you know and uh but eventually I got into it and that I did that for a about a year about a year I was I was as an admissions coordinator and through that time I personally developed courage of just talking to people on the phone. I developed relationships with those folks. I got to see them at their worst day and I got to see them when they graduated. I got to see them on their best day. You’re on site. Mhm. Oh, that’s cool. And I got to be I got to be part of their journey. I got to I got to be the one that say, “Hey, it’s you’re not okay, but you’re going to be okay. And it’s okay not to be okay right now. You just trust me and grab my hand and I’ll walk you through the fog that you’re in right now. I got you. Reach out. It’s up to that person if they’re going to reach out or not. all I can do is make sure that I hold the space and that’s what I did as an admissions coordinator, I just held the space that made recovery possible. Mhm. And um and so after some time of being an admissions coordinator, I got asked to lead that department and then eventually as at um kind of graduating from that program in and the and uh I as the senior director of outreach. And so I moved from from behavioral health tech to admissions to outreach. And the outreach piece I was going out into the community, developing relationships and building out a network around Country Road. Yeah. We told you that on your, you know, 30th day of sobriety, you’re going to go network, build, forget about it. pipelines, connections, relationships with new people, build trust, talk about recovery, be au I mean, that’s like Yeah. And again, that’s the sauce. Again, it was this scary thing that I didn’t know how to do. Like when I like I like being a tech. I kind of knew how to be a tech because I watched people be a tech, but I was still afraid to be a tech. But we did it and we learned. And then admissions, I was petrified, but we did it and we learned. We built team. We built camaraderie. It was fun. And then moving into outreach, I was terrified. I remember my first outreach call. I had planned out this elaborate day of what I was going to go do. And I showed up at this like this therapist office that did ADS sack assessments or whatever. And she told me, she said, “I don’t know who you are. I don’t want any part of whatever you’re trying to sell me. Crushing. Yeah, but we do CBT. But we do CBT. Hold on. Have equin the good work. Yeah. This is Lady, this is my first day. It’s gender specific. Lady, this is my first day and you’re really slam. Yeah. And I call my boss. I was like, “Bos, this just happened to me. I’m going to go home.” He’s like, “No, don’t go home yet. Go to a couple more. You’ll be okay. I can’t believe that happened to you on your first try.” Like that that’s not the usual. Like that is so unusual for that to happen. But again, it just like this this like just stepping into the things that are uncomfortable and getting through it and showing myself that I can get through it. Cuz like back in the day, if something was uncomfortable, I’ll just, you know, I’ll just use I’ll just drink. I just wash it all away. I won’t do anything. I’ll just sit behind my video games and like forget life even exists. But today I’m like tra like I’m like really pushing myself. Like being a tech was hard, being admissions was hard. Like I’m pushing myself through these things and I have a good community around me that’s like pushing me and helping me navigate these like hard things in my life at the time. And now I look back and I’m like gosh I could I could answer an admissions phone call right now. I’m like be like smooth sailing. it be like it’d be like, you know, Mhm. it just be like something really fun to do. Mhm. And um and so like and that’s why I think working in treatment as somebody that’s in recovery has been so powerful in my life is because like not only am I like getting to serve the people that my people getting to serve my people. I’m also getting I’m also getting pushed I’m getting pushed to challenge myself in these different ways that I never knew possible. Which pushes me into my next journey. I was at um I was at a conference, the Rocky Mountain Symposium here in Aurora and I was by myself. I was supposed to have somebody come with me, but this was my first conference that I was completely by myself. And I’m like again, you know, stepping into the uncomfort. I just went in, I did it. We did a national conference together. But then I ran across the Sunwave guys. And the Sunwave guys, they made a really big impact on me. And one of the account executives, he pulled me aside. He said, “Do you like business development?” And I said, “Yeah.” Like I’m at that point I was getting kind of burnt. Yeah. At that point I was kind of getting burnt on like the message and everything. Um I think I think it just had a time shelf for me. But he’s like, you know, I think you’d be a really good account executive and um I let that seed kind of sink in. Mhm. And then a few months later, the opportunity came up. I don’t know if it was a few months. might have been a solid year later, but the opportunity came up to join Sunwave to be part of their team as an account executive. And again, that that miss that that thing just keeps repeating itself, right? I step into this account executive role and I’m like completely imposter syndrome. Like, how am I going to sell software? It’s a cool title, too. You know, account executive. Yeah, I was at my Yeah, I was called an account executive once. I thought it was really cool. today. I just call it So now you’re selling software. Yeah. Yeah. Now I’m selling software and uh I I try to like So the way that I see it is that when I was in direct care, I was helping I was directly helping the person that was being afflicted by addiction. directly helping them whether it be connecting them to services or like sitting knee to knee with that person and really walking them through their journey. Yeah. Walking the journey through together. And on the the software side of things, I get to sit with treatment centers that are doing good work, treatment centers that are helping their community. and I get to be kind of like a little bit on the sidelines and kind of just jump in and assist programs and
helping them increase their capacity to reach more people in their community. That’s a tr I mean when it comes to like on my on my LinkedIn I’m um kind of coined this dorky little name like software slinging cowboy, you know, I’m from from Oklahoma. I I don’t know if I consider myself a cowboy, but it’s fun. But I think your sum total impact through Sunwave and this business development opportunity is much larger. Much larger cuz like even our program, we’re not you’re not even a client, but we will be but like what what you’re going to do from an operational I talked about it last night from an operational excellence perspective. You know, I had 12 companies doing what Sunwave is about to do a year ago is just extraordinary an extraordinary lift. And from an operational perspective, it’s messy. It’s dirty. Uh from a billing perspective, from a client retention, from a alumni, from an AR, from all the things that go into it. And some people don’t think like, well, this is serving others. Well, we we serve people. You guys serve great companies. And you help us be more efficient, more dialed in so that we can serve more people. And it’s interesting, too, because the people that you all hang out with are doing good work. And for the most part, the people that I’ve met, you know, they’re they’re putting their best foot forward. And I think that says something not only about the Sunwave team, what they’ve created, but your existence was within that platform, which is really, really special. It’s just another lens to look through. That’s what drew me to the company in the first place. Mhm. Um, what drew me to Sunwave in the first place was the people that were working there. Yeah. They met with they met me with such authenticity. Mhm. And so, yeah, I’ve stepped into software sales, which I never really imagined myself in software sales. Like, I’d go to these conferences and I’d be like, that’s a software fella. We got no proof. We’re going to dodge that guy cuz we know I know what’s coming. I’m going to have to tell him no. I don’t really want to tell him no. Um that’s so funny. Sometimes I want to say things and I don’t and it’s good. Yeah, fair enough. You can’t say that. I can’t say that. Fair enough, dude. Fair enough. No, but the Sunway people, they’re looking great. They were they were really just their their impression on me was impressive. And so like as somebody that’s coming from direct care to software sales, um I feel that I bring this like different kind of like a I feel like I’m bringing a unique value to this. Like I want to create the community necessary around us to build not just the company, not just Sunwave. Dude, when we rise, I want everybody that we’re helping to rise with us. I want to create this type of community around us that builds into something that is worthy of reaching the people that we’re trying to help because it’s not siloed. What I do isn’t siloed. Yeah. What I do in my field isn’t doesn’t stop at just helping an organization like Peaks. Peaks helps people. Peaks helps the community of Colorado Springs. Peaks helps one of my good friend you know Peaks helped one of my good friends back in Oklahoma like the reach is extensive if you don’t take it seriously like that if you don’t like if we don’t sit with the people that we’re supporting in a way that’s like hey we want to make sure that you have what you need to be successful and you’re right dude I think right now I think right I think in the in our field we kind of got sucked into this well you need this tool and you need this tool and you need this tool you need a tool to track your admissions you need a tool to track your marketing. What about billing? Well, we need two tools there and we got to do AR and we got to do billing. Uh, we need to track all of our financial piece. So, now we need like a financial module or whatever. Um, of course, we need our EMR to track clinical documentation, but what about our AI now? Now, we need another piece for AI. Yeah, dude. And we just got sucked into this as an industry. We got sucked into this idea that I got and then they open companies like what would be synonymous? just can’t say their company name. But then they open companies that just literally link it all together. Dude, it’s another company. You know how But where they were so efficient in like just tying it all off for you, you know? It’s a It’s a while, man. But you know how to me the other day? Frankenstein still looks like a person. He sure does. But Frankenstein ain’t so do our cell phone towers, man. Which weren’t built for this type of They’re like, “Those things are leaning over.” Meanwhile, Eli must got satellites in the sky. These things are like, you know, they’re not going to be here very long. So, it’s all that stuff, man. And that’s what inspired me about you guys and inspired me about the relationship. And as I told you guys last night, I don’t think I ever said this, but you know, I didn’t want to go to the dinner. Uh, but the way that you met me at the door and what you said to me was profound and I was like, “Man, get over your shit.” And I was able to sit down and settle. And it wasn’t because I don’t like engaging with people and having conversation, I was just in a very, very intense time in business and things were really uncertain. And so, in those moments, I tend to like really go inward and try and control all the controllables. Um, but I was grateful that I got outside of my comfort zone out that night because it’s been an extraordinary connection ever since. So much fun. Yeah, it’s been so cool, man. You’re really making a a footprint here in Colorado. We want to get you introduced to more people and it’s not necessarily about, you know, getting Sunwave introduced to this program. It’s about getting great people together to see what can come of it. It’s about building bridges. Yeah, man. It’s about connecting people to people. Yeah. It’s that passion, dude. When you have when you have somebody that’s doing great work, like I said, I’ve already said this, but when you have somebody doing great work and they’re doing like phenomenal treatment and they’re reaching people where they’re at in the community, and then you have somebody else that’s offering a different type of service and you connect those two people, dude, you just built a bridge that so many people can cross. So many people can cross that bridge and so many relation, new relationships can be built off that. I mean, like with TJ, excuse me, with TJ, that connection is beginning to blossom. Like I met, you introduced me to him at the winter symposium. Now we’re connecting here at this like crazy cool workshop in Purple Mountain. Yeah. And him and Dustin have really hit it off, you know. That’s cool. Both from the Bay Area. What I love, you remember back Dustin remember cuz he’s probably my age about maybe younger. Um, so we used to do these things back in the day in elementary school where we would do these time capsules. Yeah. And we would write, right? Because you couldn’t just do a podcast and record it and like just pull it up later. So we do these time caps and we bury it in the ground and then like 20 years later you come and you open it up and you’re like Becky said she was going to marry Corey. It’s this crazy thing. Well, now we got Finding Peaks and we got a podcast. So, if I were to ask you and I want to encapsulate the show with this because maybe we’ll be able to bring it back up in a decade, but like if I were to say like with your understanding and awareness that people like us generally sell themselves short, especially we’re not present, but if I were to ask you what where you want to be in the next 10 years, not just as a but as a professional uh and a human like what would you what would be a beautiful setting? here to you.
Where do I want to be? Who do I think I’d want to be?
I want to be somebody that leads troops into battle. I want to be at the spirit. I want to pave the way for people who are saying, “I don’t know where to go. I don’t know what to do. I don’t know who I am.” I want to make sure that when somebody is reaching out for help, they have a clear pathway to that help. Mhm. Whether it be that person that’s struggling on the street, whether that be a newly found program in our community that’s trying to build legs underneath them, whether it be a fully established program in our country, may want to do better work. I want to be able to I want to be that person that paves the way as the spear tip into a brighter and a bigger and brighter future.
where the people that are asking for help, they have that help. Mhm. I think there’s probably a deeper answer in there somewhere.
But I love that answer. There’s another one. Here we go. There’s another one that I want to be. All my life has been like wicked chaotic, you know, like growing up. My parents got divorced fairly young, split home. Um, high school was I had like a 1.7 GPA, not because of a lack of intelligence, because of just a lack of give a [  ] Yeah. And um like and then straight into addiction right after high school and then recovery. That’s chaotic in its own self, you know? I think in 10 years I want to have my wife, my kiddos, a beautiful home. I want to be happy with what I have. Mhm. That’s being rocketed into the fourth dimension. Yeah. Right underneath where your feet are. I want to be somebody that can be present with my feet. Not worried about this. Not worried about the the status quo. Not wor Mhm. Just content. I love that, man. Just content. Cuz I guess if you can be where your feet are, you’ll know that you had it all along. It’s already there. And and I think that’s the cool thing and the profound thing for me about what you said initially was like don’t forget the moment to celebrate because what you want you have and you will continue to grow. But it’s right here, you know, and it’s a beautiful freaking thing. It’s right here right now. Yeah, man. Thanks for coming on my podcast, dude. Dude, thanks for having me. So nice connecting just shooting the [  ] I was coming over here like this going to be great. You know, I don’t interview a lot of people that like make me structure anything in any sort of way. Sometimes docs and stuff like can you put it on board, you know, but I love just connected, man. I love what you’re doing for the community. I love seeing you out here. I love seeing the Sunwave guys. Looking forward to a long-standing relationship and just one day at a time like big hearts, big smiles, full focus, feet on the ground. Grateful to know you, my friend. I’m grateful to know you, buddy. Thanks for letting me sit on my I’m glad my first podcast ever was with you. So that was great. Yeah, dude. First one. Cool, man. We try to keep it light in here, man. Yeah. Cool. It was a good time. Awesome, man. Well, from Oklahoma to you, peers, everybody, thanks for coming through. Until next time, please check us out. You know where to find us. Stay blessed, my beautiful people. Peace. See you.