Episode 156

It doesn’t matter how you do it, when you do it, what you’re doing when you do it. If you’re showing up with authenticity and love and care and compassion and empathy, those people are being seen. If you’re comfortable, take the next step. Experience a little bit of uncomfortability. But I might say, “But I don’t know what’s on the other side of that.” And I might say, “Trust the process.” How can we work together? Because at the end of the day, all of our goals should be the same. To help the client, to help their family, for these people to get well. I mean, period dot the end. And whatever that wellness looks like for them, how can we be a part of it? [Music] [Applause] [Music] Hey everybody and welcome to another exciting, amazing and enthusiastic episode of Finding Peaks. I am so grateful today to be joined by my dear friend, colleague, wife, business partner, ride or die, Cassidy Burns on the set. Welcome to the show, Cassidy. So grateful to have you. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. and we’re going to introduce Cassidy and her new role. But I really wanted to go over I was sitting in the hot tub this morning and I told Cass I was like here’s the topic peaks, trials, tribulations, and triumphs over the last 11 years. And I’m really excited to kind of get into the nitty-gritty on like how this all became. What were the thoughts, feelings, and emotions behind Opening Peaks? What has it been like throughout the process? In addition to that, it’s our 13-year wedding anniversary. So, as we kick off the new year, 2026, Peak’s recovery, Cassidy Burns has been a constant throughout the 11 years here at Peaks and um real grateful to have her on the show to gain her insights. Um because I don’t remember watching a podcast with a treatment center owner on there and uh his wife. So, really looking forward to kind of getting a bird’s eye view into what it has been like for you. And certainly you remember so much more than I do because I’m like in the fire and then I come home and like share with you, but you have this real objective way to look at things and experience things. And so just want to allow the viewers a little insight into that journey and what it’s been like for you and how you carry that message into your current outreach position. So, as we go back to 2013, which was the year before we opened Peaks, um I think I came to you at the end of 2013, and I said I had just got back from a trip to Colorado. Yep. I visited Parker Valley Hope, which was our one and only referral source at the time. We’re building a phenomenal relationship. And I went there to drop off Chipotle and just say, “Thank you very much from Prescuit, Arizona.” And they said, “Chris, you need to open a program in Colorado.” Yep. So, I come home and I say, “Babe, I got this plan. We’re going to move to Colorado. The thing is is we’re going to do it in like the next 90 days.” Yep. Like, what was that like? What was that experience? You know, back then we were I’m 40 now. So, I was 29 28 years old. Mhm. Um, what was that like? What was that experience for you having been kind of engulfed in the recovery community up to that point? I was excited but also really scared. Uh Prescuit where we were moving from was my hometown as you know. Uh I love my hometown. I miss my hometown all the time. It’s a really beautiful place to grow up. Um but and I you know I had felt connected when we were leaving. You know I had made a couple of really close friends. We were really integrated in the community. We were showing up for the community. I mean, not just the treatment center that we were working for, but we were a part of a whole lot of other communities that we were going into all the time. Uh, I felt seen. I felt valued in Prescuit. I had a lot of people that I didn’t want to leave. But I also knew that your vision that you had for something new and something great that we could do it. There was no doubt in my mind that we were going to make it happen. I just didn’t know exactly what that was going to look like, right? I mean, we literally came out here two weeks before we moved out here, found a place to live. Uh, and then you drove out a couple of weeks before I even did. Uh, and I remember driving out alone and just being really scared about what the future was to hold for us and to leave everything that we had already built behind. I mean, we were leaving something great. We were both making really great money. Um, we had a wonderful house. We had a dog. I mean, we were starting to build our lives. So, then to uproot that and drive somewhere that neither one of us had really ever spent any time. I mean, when we first moved here, I remember telling people, I don’t even know where a gas station is. Um, but I was also so excited. Uh, you were in school. Um, I just knew that whatever we were going to create together was going to be beautiful and amazing. Um, and I knew we were going to serve a population that was so much needed out here. You know, when we first opened, there was 68 programs in the entire state. Um, Donna Schwarz at Parker Valley Hope at the time seemed to really love you and your vision as well. I mean, I remember when we first came out here and we went to the Omni Resort for the very first um what’s it called? the conference the conference very first conference that you and I had done together and we met all these wonderful people many of them on which we are still in contact with today closely and it was really after that weekend that I thought to myself like we can do this we’re going to make this work no matter what and we have what it takes to make it work yeah it was uh I I remember that conference so clearly and one thing people don’t know is like I do get nervous on occasion And I remember like after you mentioned that I I remember checking in and seeing Lenny in line. Yep. And I’m like, I don’t even know where to hold my hands. I guess I’m a professional. I’m um trying to figure out how to be an owner and maybe I have a little bit of imposttor syndrome. Then we went and put our stuff in our room. And I I thought to myself when I was in there, I was like, I could just stay in this room for the rest of the conference. Yep. But we went out there and a lot of those pictures in our first six months, our first year is just me and you at the booth, me with my bow tie, which was frankly it was a clip on and um but we were doing it. And it’s this idea of like we always teach this to people in recovery. It’s like if you’re comfortable, take the next step. Experience a little bit of uncomfortability. But I might say, “But I don’t know what’s on the other side of that. And I might say trust the process. Yeah. And so we did something very similar where to your point like we were more comfortable probably spiritually mentally emotionally monetarily than we had ever been. But there was a calling to do something different to do something unique and to bring something to Colorado that frankly just hasn’t been in the Colorado provider community. Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. I mean, we were one of the first extended care programs out here. Yep. There there wasn’t any extended care treatment. I mean granted since then we have grown into so much more than that which we also never thought possible but it was it was it was something new. It was something fresh. I mean we knew we loved Colorado. We were like oh the state is amazing. Uh we knew it called to us in that way. Um but it there was just so much unknown. I mean and even you and I talk about it all the time when I start to look back like we had no idea what we were doing. like we were riding off the backs of what we had seen what we had seen done and just knew in a few specific areas how we wanted to do things differently. That’s all it was. We picked out what maybe a handful a couple handfuls of things that we didn’t like that we saw within the industry that we wanted to change that we wanted things to look differently and we kind of just rode with that. You know, it was a really special time. And although we didn’t know what we know today, the benefit of hindsight is incredible. I mean, I walk through our hall of fame and at the facility and I’m like, shouldn’t have been on that 14er, you know, but these are some of the most connected times in the early process of peaks and really establishing this idea that we really, really care. And you know, for those of you who don’t know, you know, Cassidy comes from a family of mental health issues and substance related issues and things of that nature. And so, she’s always had a big heart for people in recovery. And um that’s how I met her. She was hanging out with all these freaking recovery people. And I’m like, “What are you doing here?” You know, and I’ve learned over the years that she wants to see people get well. She wants to see authentic recovery processes. And although we didn’t have necessarily a business plan or a plan of action, the idea was is that we could plant a seed of hope. Correct. And we could plant a seed of hope that says regardless of where you go, you know, and our outcomes probably weren’t amazing at the time. We weren’t keeping a lot of that data, but wherever you go, you’ll always know that there’s a team of people in Colorado Springs that are really, really rooting for you. Mhm. And I think that as much as it it feels small, I think that was something that we did really really well in the early years of our program. Yeah, I would say so too. I mean, you know, people always want to kind of rip on who you are at the beginning of everything, but every single person that I’m still in contact with today that went through our program within even the first five years uh have nothing but amazing things to say. I mean, even the things now that you would never see again, you know, modalities and certain certain things that were used back then that were a little more shame based than they are now, which was we just didn’t have the knowledge. Uh, none of those people would take any of that back though. You know, it still seemed like we could see the person for who they are. You know, even when I started hanging out with people in early recovery, I was brought to that space because I started going to Alanon and then I started going to ACA. Um, I had always had this deep rooted thing inside of me that told me that the way my family looked isn’t how it had to look. That there was so much more to life and to humans in general that we were just missing. You know, my dad even used to ask me all the time like,”Why do you hang out with these people in recovery?” And I was like, “Well, where else can you go into a room with a group of people that are constantly trying to better themselves?” I said, “I want some of that. I want to sit with people that are willing to be vulnerable and say, “I’m not okay, and what can I do to be better?” You know, even when I used to go into early circles, you know, even in Arizona when I’d go to women’s circles and people would beounding on their clients to give up information, it wasn’t about that for me. It was I wanted every single person in that room to know that I saw them as a human being. That we can talk about the stories. We can talk about the drugs that you used or didn’t use. We can talk about what you did to get those drugs. We can talk about where you lived or didn’t live, the relationships you had or didn’t have, but at the end of the day, what are the feelings attached to that? What brought you here? What is the core root of the why? Because I’m a human just like you. I felt pain, anger, disgust, trust, distrust, loyalty, love. Like at the end of the day, we all share the same human emotions, but we get so attached to the why of what brought me here instead of I’m human, too. I have felt that, too. Yes, my story may be different than yours. But I know what pain feels like. I know what loneliness feels like. I mean, I’ve struggled with mental health my entire life. I know what anxiety feels like, depression feels like. So, how can we sit with another human being and see them as an equal? Not for their story, not for what they’ve been through, not for what got them there, but for the emotions that we all share. And how can we connect in that way? Yeah. I love that you said that. It’s almost like because I really value what we do at Peaks as far as the mental health and the substance use integration, how we don’t see a separate path. Correct. And on that path, you would have been in a treatment program. Yeah. serving your needs, your mental health issues. But we were told a lot of different stories and mixed messages like AA is not a hot bed for mental health. This isn’t about mental health. This is about substance use. Closed meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous, church basement, you know, the whole drill. And so I love that you you brought that up. I think it’s a really important feature for people to understand um and to put the shovel down, you know? Yeah. Because at the end of the day, what is it that connects us? What what brings us together? Humanness. Humanness. Yeah. Like I mean, even in recovery, right, we we want to judge people. We want to get on them or, oh, they made that choice or that choice or they did this or they did that. I’m guilty of it. But at the end of the day, that’s their life, their story, their path. Maybe I would have chose something different for myself, but I’m a different human being. I’m a different person. And we spend so much time focusing on those differences instead of what makes us alike, you know, like we have so how many groups of different groups of friends do we have? You know, it’s like, oh, we’ve got our jiu-jitsu friends, we have wrestling friends now because of our boys joining wrestling, you know, we have work friends, we have outside of work friends, we have more f friends that have become family than we do family. Mhm. It it’s these connections that we continue to go out and choose to build. Now, are every single one of them intimate and they all get to come into our inner circle and be a part of the inner messes? No. But they are people that we can go to in different groups that we know love us, know care about us, make us feel seen, make us feel heard, and make us feel valued. And really that is the whole point. Yeah. You know, and with mental health, you know me, I’m naturally introverted. I have zero issues being by myself. I in fact love it. But that leads to loneliness for me. And I will always choose isolation over community. Always. It’s what’s comfortable for me. It’s where my trauma lies. But every single time I get out into doing something with other people, I’m energized. I have a great time. I push myself into new experiences. I mean, even you guys putting me in the community outreach role. I told you, I was like, “Oh my goodness, you’re going to put the introvert in the community outreach role.” I mean, that’s a lot of peopleling. Yeah. you know, but every single time I’ve stepped in these spaces, no matter how insecure I feel or imposterous I feel, I come back to me and realizing that I’m capable of so much more than I even give myself or the box that I put myself in. You know, we live in a society today that puts labels on everything. Everybody wants a label. We want labels to feel seen and heard, but really all they do is separate us. We, oh, you’re into that. I’m not into that. I don’t fit. Humans are complex. We are deep. We’re multiaceted, right? Just because I enjoy wrestling and jiu-jitsu, that doesn’t mean that I don’t enjoy yoga. That me doesn’t mean that I don’t enjoy souring in the woods. That I don’t enjoy stillness. You know, we like to just put people in boxes because it makes us feel safe and oh, if they like that, then we can connect there. Or they like that, we can connect there. Well, what if you just showed up as your whole authentic self and allowed people to love you for all the complexities? You find a much bigger community. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And a much more connected community. Yeah. I love that you brought that up. It’s so valuable. And I think sometimes people can’t see themselves in those labels and so they just turn the other way, put the phone down and don’t reach out for help. So I’m really grateful you mentioned that. With the Peak’s journey, you know, we opened in September of 2014 and by November of 2015, our first son was born. Correct. And by October 14th of 2016, our second son was born. And I continued down the path of Peaks. Not only were we opening did we open the men’s program in 14, we opened the women’s program in 15, we opened professional outpatient in 16 and you went from being kind of a professional by my side to a full-time mom. Correct. And I had thought because of my trauma and my pain and I had thought that what men do is they just go improve the socioeconomic situation of their family and grow them up and out of that level. Yep. And that’s what I did really really quickly. But in that process when kind of you went home and and were at a stay-at-home mom, there was a lot of disconnection. You struggled really bad throughout that process. We struggled really bad throughout that process. And on the front of the book, it looked really nice though. It did. Looked really nice. Beautiful custom home, two Irish twins, car stuff, treatment program, connection. Yep. But what do you think we missed in there? And what did that feel like for you?
We missed a lot. Yeah. I mean I mean I mean I mean we didn’t even hit the target. I was launching arrows over like is that good? Is that good? You know uh I mean you know many people would probably be really surprised to hear this but I mean we barely made it out of that. You know and what a lot of people don’t know is we also miscarried a few months after moving out here. And for me, still not knowing where anything really is because we jump straight into work. Um, I have no community out here. I have no friends. Meanwhile, back at home, I’m dealing with the separation of friendships and relationships. People that didn’t show up for me once you moved, which is really common. Everybody thinks, “Oh, my friends are going to come see me and it’s going to be so great.” No. A lot of those relationships fizzled and they ended. Um, you know, I was a mess to be completely honest. I was a complete mess. I wasn’t doing any work for myself after the miscarriage. And then we got pregnant shortly after that again with Rooric. Um, and then six weeks postpartum with Roric, found out that I was pregnant again with Garrick. Um, and I wasn’t happy to be completely honest. I was so scared. I mean, Roric was really struggling the first three weeks that he was home with us. Um, certain expectations that I had for the way things were going to go. Um, oh yeah, we had the whole birth plan. Yeah, we had this whole birth plan. Oh, yeah. We’re going to do all these things. The wind’s going to blow in this thing and oh, I’m going to I’m going to breastfeed. I’m going to do all these things. Well, I have a medical condition and was un unable to breastfeed and uh the delivery didn’t go the way I expected it to. I ended up having to have an emergency epidural. The doula, we had a doula. I mean, everything was not going according to my plan. And you know, growing up with anxiety and depression and my family system, yes, I never did substances, but control and codependency were my things, right? They just manifested in different ways. So now here we are, this new environment. I know nothing and everything seems out of my control. You and I aren’t really connecting because you’re working all of the time. And the minute you come home from work, you’re taking over baby duty while I’m going to sleep for 4 hours to then wake up for you to hand me back the baby so that you can go to sleep and start it all over again. Um, you know, and I, you know, most people maybe not don’t know this either, but neither one of us grew up with money. Um, even me more so probably than you. And I grew up in low-inccome apartments and my dad owning construction business where he tried his hardest to make it successful and it was for for several years. Um, but in the crash in 2008, my dad lost everything. And once again, I’m seeing the cycle of my family system kind of going through what I had always known. Um, and I felt I felt lost. I felt isolated. I mean, we’re living in this big house in the mountains. You would think, oh, all of her dreams have come true. Um, but the thing was, I never dreamed of any of that. It all happened so fast that it never really was a dream. I I came out here hoping for a su a successful business, but I didn’t have dreams of the houses and the money and the cars and the things and the vacations and the places and the stuff. Uh so here I am at home still trying to work, still trying to do billing from home while we’re raising two small babies. And you know, you had passion, you had drive, you had discipline. And I didn’t have any of those things. I I didn’t know what I wanted. I didn’t know who I was. I was suffering from extreme postpartum depression. Um I wanted nothing but to be with the boys all the time. I could not disconnect from them. And we didn’t see or hear each other back then the way we we do now. I mean, but ultimately through that entire process, I wouldn’t have wanted it to go any other way because it brought you and I closer together. It brought us a deeper meaning to our relationship than I ever thought either one of us thought possible. Um, you know, I mean, we we literally sat down and we’re like, okay, like we might get divorced. We we didn’t think that would come either, you know. And I remember asking you like, do you want to recommmit to us to this? Like, do you want this? because if you don’t want this, I’d rather us both walk away and still have enough love and care for each other that we can co-parent our amazing boys together. But I didn’t want to that to be the end. And I knew that we could be so much more if we were just both willing to like dip our toes in and see what that was going to look like. Because here we are at a pivot point, right? We’re either going to do this or we’re not. And you and I have come to that in several points in our relationship, even when we were first dating. You know, we got in our very first argument. And we sat down with each other in my truck and we’re like, “Are we going to do this? And if we’re going to do this, like, we’re going to do this. We’re going to kill this. We’re going to break family cycles. Like, we’re going to do this.” And I constantly think about that moment because there was a part of our consciousness, I swear, that knew our story in the stars before we even did. We had made it a point in that moment to change our family systems, to make things look different. And when it came time for us to recommmit to each other and figure out who we really were, I was committed to doing that with you and you were committed to doing that with me. And you know, here we are on our on our anniversary and I still choose you every single day. I wake up every morning and choose to be committed to you and our family. And I I couldn’t be more grateful. Honestly, there there isn’t a day that goes by that I’m not grateful for everything that we have, everything we’ve built. But it’s been a process. Mhm. And I think people often times forget that, especially with social media. We get to see the highlight reels. We get to see the family photos. We get to see the vacations, but we don’t see the dayto-day. You know, we don’t get to see the tough conversations, the the intimate moments where I’m crying and don’t know what to do. You know, when you’re breaking family cycles and systems, there are a lot of times when you’re like, I don’t I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing. Because we didn’t have these examples to run off of, you know, we don’t have parents necessarily that we can call and ask advice from like what does a healthy marriage look like in a in an argument like this? You know, how should I show up? We know screaming, yelling, fighting, cussing, cops, police, paramedics, like jail time, you know. So, it’s it’s been a process. It really has. But life is a journey. It is a it’s a journey full of different sized waves. Some are going to knock you down and it’s just are you going to get back up again? I mean, we have been knocked down so many times and every single time we come to each other and we ask each other, are we going to get back up again? And you know, even as your aunt says, Chris, you fall running uphill. Like, and I truly believe that about our relationship and about the lives that we’ve built for each other as well, is we’re going to continue to run uphill. We’re going to figure this [ __ ] out no matter what it is. And I am more grateful probably for that than every other thing in our relationship because at the end of the day, you can love somebody with your whole heart and still not make it work. There are conversations that had to be had and things that had to happen for us to get to where we are right now. And those first five years in business had to happen because all the stuff that pulled us apart as well helped put us back together. Yeah. It’s almost like the story of Peaks rolls right along with the story of Chris, Cassidy, Roric, and Derek. I mean, it really like when I when I started to see the program improve in the way that I really see it fit today, it was like was when we went to Survivor and we did these things. But I want to go back to So now we have two boys that are born into this like they’ve never known anything other than Peaks. Correct. And I have pictures in my phone just when they were little babies like sitting them on my desk and Ror’s chewing on a pen and Yeah. Um it’s turned out to be a very valuable thing for them too. Yeah. And they love Peaks. Correct. And they love what we do and they love how we extend the helping hand into the community and continue to do that. And it’s interesting too because I don’t think they could ever envision a world where like Peaks doesn’t exist and we’re not doing this thing. Yeah. You know. Yeah. I mean it really they don’t know life without it. You know, from the moment they came in, this has been what we do. And we’ve always talked so positively about what we do, how we do it, why we do it, and they hear that and they know that. And I think there’s this level of pride that they carry with themselves, like, “Oh, my mom and dad help people.” That makes them feel good. And to know, I mean, they know every single day, like we’re not perfect and we’re trying our best. And I think it has brought a light to their life that not every kid gets to see, which is acts of service and helping other people. They hide they hold that to the highest regard. You know, like my daddy and mommy, they help people and they mean that like genuinely and authentically mean that. I mean, and the the title waves that we’ve faced in business over the years, every single time the boys are like, “Nope. Keep moving. Keep moving.” Yeah. Yep. Well, how you going to fix it? Yeah. Oh, what are you guys going to do different next time? Yep. Exactly. I mean, they’re literally like our little accountability buddies. Like, nope. Nope. You said we walk through hard things, guys. Like, we’re going to walk through this hard thing. Yeah. I’m so grateful that they’re that way because when all else seems lost, it’s almost like a a north star. People are like, “You had a conversation with your nine-year-old.” I’m like, “Yeah, he was he was actually eight.” But because we’re so transparent with them and connected and live in the light, they make sure that we stay living in the light as well, which is a really, really cool thing. It is. And you know, I don’t think a lot of parents realize when you open your children up to the power of choice and conversation, what they will bring you with that. They have such a beautiful and untainted way of looking at the world. You know, they’re yeah, they’re nine and 10, but they don’t have the same biases that you and I did or nor the same experiences. You know, I was already angry by the time I was Roor’s age. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and and our kids are just not they they see us very clearly. I mean, you you know me, when I have a a bad mom day, I am the first one that’s going to shame myself and guilt myself for my behaviors or reactions or responses to certain things. And our kids are so gracious. So gracious. They understand. They hear us. They They’re heir. They’re heard. They’re seen. And I think it’s created this value within our little quad that is just untouchable. Yep. You know, even in in great times and tough times, it just doesn’t matter. Uh we all come together. We are able to share the big things, the little things, and all the above. We’ve really built this beautiful connection with our children. Um, and with peaks. Yeah. You know, I mean, there was years there with peaks where I was just like, God, we’re so imshed with this. We’re so imshed. Like, there’s no separation. It’s just peaks, peaks, peaks, peaks, peaks. How many times did you hear me say that? And there was almost times where I was resentful, but it was just because I think I knew that we had, you know, all the marbles in that jar. And they really were. Even in the in the first several years, all of our marbles were in that jar, you know, and I had a few marbles over here for me and the boys, and you had some marbles over here for your things, but the most of our marbles, they were in that jar. It was we needed that to work. That was our livelihood. That was what we came out here to do. But I don’t know if Peaks would have been as successful even as it is now if we wouldn’t have given it that time and attention that it deserved. Oh, for sure. That’s without question. You know, and at the same time, it’s like we’re our mission is to save lives and disrupt the industry through quality of care. And you know, we don’t process a lot of things in life, especially early recovery. We don’t we don’t process grief the appropriate way. You know, by the time we were five years in business, not only had I been to 15 funerals before we opened Peaks. Um, but what is that like for you as as the wife of a treatment owner, you know, how many times have I walked through the back door and been like, “We lost another person. I’m going to another funeral. We’re doing these things. were trying to build a relationship and a family and a company and a business, but the business has real real humans in it. Yeah. Trying to really really excel and thrive in their lives. And sometimes we get that unfortunate news, but by the time we were open for four years, I mean, it probably happened 10 times. People that were very near and dear to us, we were connected with. And what was that like kind of being on the sideline a little bit, but like walking real time with those stories? You know, it was really difficult. Even before we came out here, you and I had built several relationships in Prescuit that, you know, we had lost people. And I think over time working in recovery, you almost become desensitized a little bit to that, you know? I mean, even research outcomes tell you, oh, every one in four in treatment is going to make it. Like, that’s so bleak. Um, in the amount of people that we have lost over the years, it’s absolutely heartbreaking. It It really is. I mean, there were a few, not that I pick favorites, but there were a few that I was closer with um that really really shook us. I mean, shook our clients, shook our entire team. Um, we had met these really, really beautiful individuals who have now lost their lives and we spent so much time focusing on the story, right, and the stuff and the things. But that’s a human being. And usually in in treatment, we get to see those people at their best. They’re getting well. They’re doing the things. They’re they’re reconnecting with their family members. I mean, how many parents have we had over the years tell us, you know, like they’re sorry to us and that that time that they had with their child was the best time that they had with their child. Yes, it may have only been 90 days. They got their son or daughter got 90 days sober and they got 90 days with them. They got to see them clean. They got to see them healthy. They got to see them bright and alive. They got to hear them. They got to have a genuine conversation with them. They got to be authentic only to have their son or daughter die shortly after leaving treatment.
I don’t know if I can put into words
how that destroys you on a different level, though. You almost hope for the the shitty story. You’re like, “Oh, I hadn’t seen him in six months. He was doing his thing. You know, we set these boundaries. We haven’t talked to him. We don’t know where he is. Okay, he’s gone. But I don’t know. I I don’t know if being in this has really even taught me how to grieve. If anything, it’s taught me to be appreciative of the time that I get with these people, even if it’s shortlived. You know, honestly, when it comes to grief, losing your dad taught me more than anything. um that at the end of the day, the stuff that somebody does bad, you know, or wrong or didn’t show up right or had bad reactions or responses or they did this to me or they traumatized me in this way. When you really love and care about that person and they’re no longer here anymore, all you’re going to think about is the times that were good, the times when you felt loved, the times when they made you laugh. Um, and that I think is what people need to remember more than anything. Mhm. Yeah. I couldn’t agree more. You know, it was uh the first five years of Peaks like we did a lot. We overcame a lot. We did. And I remember I told Cassidy, I’m like, “Yeah, you probably need to go get some help.” And uh she’s like, “All right, well, I’ll go do that.” And so Cassidy is a courageous one. I just follow her on all of her endeavors. And and so in 2019, uh I convinced her that she was the problem and I was the solution. And so she went to the Meadows. She made this courageous decision to go into a week-long intensive. Why the weekl long intensive? Because of the story. Yeah. The big story, the relationship, what we had walked through at Peaks. the ungraved times, the miscarriages, the young adults that we lost, the families that were hurting and the pain that seemed insurmountable. And so you go to the Meadows and this started not just for me and my brother and a multitude of staff members going for this intensive, but you kind of kicked that off and you went to the survivor week at the Meadows. And I want to say from that moment forward things shifted in a pretty or I should I say like a more present and connected way. It did. I I had to do a lot of work there, you know. I mean, most people if they know my story know that I’ve always pointed the finger at my mother. Um but the reality is like we’re all a part of the story. We all have parts in the story and who you think is the villain isn’t always the villain. You know, the villain changes. Um, and I needed to see that. You know, even my dad who I put on a pretty high pedestal most of the time. He has choices that he has made that impacted our family system. And I didn’t agree with a lot of those choices, you know. And I had to I had to unpack all that. I had to unpack the the lack of love that I felt growing up, the lack of nurturing, the I was forced to grow up so quickly. Um, you know, I mean, you you’ve always said you’re such an old soul. Um, I had to unpack all of that to be able to look at what was currently and presently happening and how I could break that down and explain it, like why I was feeling unhappy. You know, back then I could tell you the story. I had zero issues telling the story of, oh, what got me here and who did this and who did that. But I couldn’t break things down to you in the way of like
I don’t like being talked to this way or when you talk to me this way, this is how it makes me feel. Um, and I I don’t even know if I could fully express how I was feeling. You know, I knew I was angry and I knew I was this and I knew this wasn’t working with all these like hard lines, but I couldn’t break it down for you. I couldn’t tell you when you do this. I couldn’t I couldn’t break it down that way. So, it was hu it was really huge for me. I I had never done experiential work like that before, ever. Um, it was really really eyeopening to me the amount of pain and trauma that I had been carrying and how I had dismissed those deeprooted things with the story. Yeah. For so long. And it helped me start to peel back the layers of the onion of me. You know, you’ve heard me use that a lot, but I I look at humans like onions, you know, kind of like in the movie Shrek where Donkey talks about Shrek being an onion and peel back the layers because like I said earlier, we are all really complex human beings. We have multitudes of stories and experiences and biases that ultimately are who we are. But I couldn’t sit down and really authentically tell you all of that with the pain attached to it without getting emotionally flooded, right? Uh so going to the Meadows was huge for me. It allowed me even to come back to you and have real honest conversations about what I needed. Um, not only in life, but from you as a partner and my husband and the father of our boys. And I couldn’t wait for everyone to go. I was like, “Oh, everybody needs to do this. This is great.” I mean, it wasn’t great. It was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. I’ve never cried probably that much in a week ever. She’s saying something. Yeah. Yeah. I cry a lot. So, but it was It’s interesting about the Meadows thing because it was like prior to that we were using our best guesses and our rigidity and staying safe. Yeah. Staying safe, keeping our head down, being very like authoritarian, some behavior mod intermix into the early days of peaks. And then it like we we went and did this thing and it like peeled back the layers as you talk about, but it exposed a lot of things. But it’s interesting to me as you were just talking I was thinking to myself we we had to grow up and out of this old model into a new refreshing way that makes peaks peaks instead of like everybody else. And it’s interesting because that inflection point was right around 2019 2020 when like you go do your work, I go do my work and we come back and we’re like what is all the rigidity about you know and we start opening up this more holistic opportunity for our guest with the benefit of hindsight and the recovery 2.0 work that was done not just by you and by me but by a lot of our clinical team as well. they were going up there and they were doing trainings and that was really, you know, it was because of your courage in a lot of ways that the Peak’s model shifted because you were the first one to do that. Yeah. And it opened up an opportunity to to say to ourselves and ask ourselves really good question is like how many more people could we help if we sit with humans and we get to connect and experience the humanness together whereas before it was a very top- down view of things. And so I wanted to point that out too is like you kind of set that ball rolling, we didn’t know what kind of ball rolling, but somebody needed to get the ball rolling. Yeah. Which is profound and absolutely beautiful. And so even though you weren’t necessarily a part of the dayto-day, you were informing because you always informed me. You always ask really great questions. I say it on the podcast all the time, but like the best question that I think anybody can ask, but Cassidy asks it all the time is, “How does that make you feel? And I just think it’s one of the best questions to ask our boys. Um, it’s so thoughtful. It’s so caring. It’s so present because that doesn’t matter, but this does. And you’ve really delivered that not only in our household, but you’ve imparted that on me. And so I I sit at work all the time and I’m like, how does that make you feel? you know, so your hand and your grace um and your love um and your curiosity is like interwoven throughout the core of Peaks because I would come home and be like, “I’m doing this.” And you’d be like, “You got to think of this.” I’m like, “Fuck that.” But then the next day I’m like, “Hey guys, you think of this?” Oh, all the time. All the time. I would laugh because you’d be like, “I don’t know. I’m going to run that by so and so. I’m going to run that by so and so.” And then you’d come home the next day and be like, “So guess what? I talked to so and so and we’re going to do this. Isn’t that great? I’m like, I’m pretty sure that’s what I told you yesterday. Why not? You know, so funny. I truly believe that. I’ve never really allowed
and thank you for that. I’ve never really allowed I don’t think that to come in. But now that you say that, I’m able to look at peaks in this like broader broader way and see that yeah, everything we were going through in our relationship and how that changed and correlated to moves we made in peaks is is pretty profound actually cuz yes, right around that time when you know I told you you need to take a look at yourself man like you do this this and this and like it’s unhealthy and it doesn’t make me feel good and I don’t like it and I actually give it could give a [ __ ] less about any of that. It it gave both of us an opportunity to really take a look at ourselves and the value in which we held in ourselves. You know, here I am this stay-at-home mom now, which I said I would never do. You knew that. Like I was hyper independent. No man or person is ever going to fully take care of me. I am always going to be financially independent, have this, have that, whatever. And really, it boiled down to no, where can I have grace? Where can I bend? Where can I flex? What can I let go of? What doesn’t serve me anymore? What is an old version of me? Who is this person sitting in front of you today? How is she different than she was yesterday? How is she different than she was five years ago? How are you different? How is our relationship different? What changes are we currently making within ourselves and within our relationship and within our family and within our business that’s not only good for us, but it’s good for everybody. And they they came by so authentically. It it really was just this eb and flow of life’s journey and making that next best choice to be better than we were yesterday. That’s what it boiled down to. How can the business be better? How can I be better? And when I fall short, why, you know, what did this bring up for me? Why am I feeling this way? Like being curious like you I am so curious. You know that I want to ask a person on the street, why did you do that? And it’s not because I’m judging you. I’m genuinely curious. Why did you make that decision that you made? What led to that? And I I can see now how even some of that has rubbed off on you and the questions you ask and the way you move and eb and flow through things now. It’s it’s pretty amazing. It’s fun to watch. It’s fun to be a part of. It feels really nice to be more open-minded just to hear, right? Because I think whenever we’ve been most successful in life, not monetarily, but spiritually, mentally, and emotionally, it’s been like we’re just right there with each other and we’re moving through. Something I wanted to ask you is interesting. There’s probably three times in the last 11 years where I came home and I said, “I don’t know if we’re going to make it.” Well, actually, we’re not going to make it. And what was it about those moments? Because if you would have told me in those moments, you’re right, it’s over. we wouldn’t be having this conversation today. Like I leaned on you and I lean on our family in a very very serious way. And so what is it like in those moments and why did you make the decision to because because really the question is is like risk it all or turn the other way. Yeah. And why do you continually on those three moments that are at least two but I think three moments where things got really tough, why are you like keep going? Cuz
why the hell not? I mean, we have put so much into this already. I mean, we’ve talked about it this whole show. Our entire relationship is ebbed and weaved into Peaks and what we came out here to build. And not only that, I know the people that we’ve helped. Um, most of them we still stay in contact with. I mean, thousands of people. I would say half the people on my social media somehow, shape or form was once a part of Peaks. Um we have helped hundreds and hundreds of people if not thousands of people treated over 2,000 people now. Yeah. It’s Yeah. It’s And I don’t want to say we’re different. You know, everyone always wants to say we’re different or we’re doing this and you’re doing that and this is better than that. I think we are two authentic people that love and care about other humans and want to see them do well. That’s it. Yeah. It doesn’t matter how you do it, when you do it, what you’re doing when you do it. If you’re showing up with authenticity and love and care and compassion and empathy, those people are being seen. They’re they’re felt, they’re valued, they’re loved, they’re cared about. You know, we’re not doing anything that anybody else isn’t doing. But we’re also us. You know, I mean, how many times on multiple occasions have people been up to us and just been like, is that do you guys always like that? You know, you guys are both so authentic and real and I don’t know how to be anything other than that. I just don’t I don’t know how to show up any differently than how I show up. Even if it’s a little crass sometimes or a little feisty sometimes or a little off-kilter sometimes. Like I’m a human being too. I’m not always going to do things right. And right to who? Right in whose eyes, you know? And I think that that shines. It shines through and it shines through bright. I’m willing to just sit with you. Can I make whatever you’re going through go away? No, I can’t. You know, sometimes life happens and the circumstances are completely out of your control. And sometimes they’re not. So, if we just continue to put one foot in front of the other, live one day at a time, then hopefully collectively all of us together can make better choices, not only for ourselves, but for the people we love and care about. Yeah, I really agree with that. And I appreciate those moments because there’s you may not know this, but there there’s a multitude of decisions over all of these years where I’m like, “Whatever Cassidy says, I’m going with like 100%.” She’s going to tell me the truth. Yeah. She’s going to tell me exactly. She’s going to make sure that I’m not out in front of my ski tips. I’m not out punting my coverage. you’ve always seen me so clearly in times when I had a difficulty seeing that for myself and I just uh really appreciate that. You know, people in recovery, fathers, husbands, people in our world, they they need people and they need support and they I always do so much better when I have a north star and you’ve just kind of been that for me all these years and so I just couldn’t be more proud to have you on the show. Couldn’t be more proud to have you back in the outreach seat. And what are you most excited because I I I love the work you’re doing in the community already. Yeah. Because it’s it’s so aligned with our referral sources and the people in the community because you’re not Listen, Cass doesn’t like get paid because of referrals. In fact, she doesn’t really get paid at all. But um but it’s not about that. Like no, we have a thing. You have a thing. and if we can share that. Um, I’ve just really appreciated the way you’ve gone out into community and connected with people and the feedback I’m getting is like, you know, where the hell is this person been, you know? So, what are you most excited 11 years almost 11 and a half years into Peaks. Um, our kids have grown up in it. We’ve matured through it. I was in my 20s. You were in your earlier 20s. Um, but what are you so excited to take from you not only 13 years of marriage, but 11 and a half years in peak? 17 years of my recovery, your healing, your experience. What are you most excited to just like bring and share in the community? My authenticity. Just be real. Yeah. Just be real, right? You don’t have to sell anything to do that. No, I don’t want to sell anything. You know, even when you came to me and were like, you know, hey, I want you to do this business development thing, I was like, okay, that’s out of my comfort zone for sure. But the first thing I said was, well, I’m getting rid of that title. I’m choosing community outreach. And you were like, okay, why? I’m like, because I’m not developing anything. The business is already here. It’s been built. It’s been here and we have walked through the changes and there’s going to be several more changes. But I like the idea of community outreach because that’s what I want to be a part of is the community in some way, shape, or form. Does it mean every click of the community? No. But I’m sure is [  ] going to try to be a part because you know even like Bnee Brown says and she talks about belonging. People are looking for spaces to belong to. They they need to feel seen, valued, and heard. We talk about this all the time. Whether it’s something you like or don’t like, it doesn’t really matter. Does it bring that person joy? Does it make them feel good? You know, that’s why I always ask the boys like, “How does that make you feel?” Because I’m happy. Cool. You won football at recess. Like awesome, dude. You won for the fifth day in a row. I know you really love winning. But how does that make you feel? Yeah. Because that’s going to tell me more than, oh, I won football again at recess. I love that because it’s very hard to train somebody or bring somebody on for business development, community outreach, whatever it might be called, and train them on the idea of like, let’s just sit presently, connect, hold the space. It’s because everybody’s out there to get a quota. You know, people don’t just get paid their salaries and their bonuses without getting people into treatment. And so, I’ve really loved this new culture that we’re putting out into the community. Similar to the dinner we went to the other night. It’s like I will speak up once someone has spoken authenticity into the room. And that’s where Peaks connects. That’s where the conversation of Peaks comes in is in this authentic space of healing because everybody knows who and what Peaks is. Yep. And we just have to remind them that we’re still down here in Colorado Springs on an island doing our thing. And that’s honestly what I say at most events that I go to. I’m like, “Hey, we’re still here.” you know, and it’s it’s nothing against any other company that’s been bought out. I mean, heck, more power to them. I’m happy for them. Um, but we are still we’re a mom and pop facility, you know, we’re still very small on the grand scale of most of these programs. I mean, even some of the smaller programs, we’re smaller. Um, and I want people to know that and to see that and to love that because yes, we may be offering the same types of services that you are or we have this one extra service that you don’t or hey, we’re mental health primary. You’re substance abuse primary. How can we work together? Because at the end of the day, all of our goals should be the same. To help the client, to help their family, for these people to get well. I mean, period dot the end. whatever that wellness looks like for them, how can we be a part of it? Right? And that’s what I want people to know. I want people to know like if anything at the end of the day Peaks is authentic. Like I I’m human. Everyone that works there is human that we’re all just trying to do the best we can to help other people get better. Period. Not the end. We want to over complicate it and make it about all these big things or little things or oh they have a nicer house than we do or they have a nicer they have a cold plunging sauna in their program. We don’t you know and we we want to make it about the stuff and the things but at the end of the day is their CEO sitting down with the client drinking coffee with them asking them how their day was? Not very many that I know. Probably not. you know, are they getting are they getting invited by clients to come hear them speak because they want that person there? They want that CEO, that founder there because that person has built an authentic relationship with them and they want them to hear a part of their story that they may very well be a huge part of. You know, that’s the stuff that that I mean, I got chills. That’s the stuff that brings me in. you know, even when you weren’t even so much in the CEO role now that you’re now in and you would sit down with almost every single client and get a coffee with them or a smoothie with them or go for a walk with them. It starts small. You and I always say it with our kids, small moments that matter. like these small moments when somebody authentically shows up for you and holds space for you. They’re not making anything better. They’re not fixing the problem. They’re showing you love. They’re showing you care. They’re showing you authenticity. And they’re communicating with you. Yeah. People want to take up space sometimes. They just want to feel seen and heard. and they just want another human to sit there and possibly at the end give them a hug and say they’re doing great because at the end of the day, how many of us actually know what we’re doing, right? In hindsight, we’ll continue to reveal that to you that you didn’t know anything. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, that’s you’d be like, man, I don’t know [  ] at 40. Yeah. I mean, for real, right? I mean, how many times have we talked about that even now being almost 11 and a half years in business, we’re like, oh [ __ ] we didn’t know what the hell we were doing back then. But guess what? what we were doing somehow worked. Yeah. Because even then we showed up with authenticity. Yep. Yeah. And we were maybe a little more ego driven and we had these other things, but we still were authentically going into every room wanting every single one of our clients to be better. And that’s all we can really want for each other at the end of the day, too. I mean, what a freaking I’m so grateful you’re back in this role now and that you had some time to disconnect and reconnect. I’m glad I did, too, because it really helped me to see that it’s not important, but we are. Yeah. And it I was telling the boys the other day, I was sitting down with Garrick and um he was like, “Daddy, I I I’m really looking forward to Christmas.” And I was like, “Yeah, I’m just really enjoying sitting on the couch with you right now and like being here and just like really being in this moment because like it’s it’s all we have, buddy.” And I don’t know if it was because like we got to the edge of losing everything spiritually, mentally, emotionally, monetarily, and otherwise. Yeah. That I just it’s been so profound to have experienced a lot of that intensity and to be sitting here today feeling more connected than ever. And some of the problems still really exist in a real time. And so I’m grateful for every moment. We’ve been handing around this saying lately. I might have said it on the show, but our good friend Kyle um and I just we just have to your point like such great friends. We do. When I sit with them, you they ask good questions and they care. And anytime I sit with Kyle and you know this is I’d say, “Wow, buddy, I I just don’t know. Like I’m losing this and I’m losing this and I’m having to cash in this and this is scary.” And he’d allow me my peace and the whole thing. and and he would just look at me and he I I know you don’t love it when I say this, but like this this all had to happen. Yeah. I just think it’s brilliant. It’s magical. And to your point, last night I got invited, one of our guests was wrapping up their 30-day program. And um I got to come watch him speak. He invited me. Bobby was there, my business partner. And it was one of the greatest speeches I’ve ever been a part of for a guest. But what the extra credit was when we went around the room and he had a coin and it’s the Peaks coin and I started to see one by one nearly every man in that room was moved to shaking to tears to experiencing a tremendous amount of authenticity and emotion. And each one of them said, “This isn’t like me.” Yeah. Um but it was so special. Yeah. And I told Chris, I walked right into the facility this morning. I walked right up to the table of all the guys that were sitting there and I’m like,”Are you kidding me with last night?” And they’re like, “What?” I’m like, “Thank you so much for allowing me to be a small part of that process. I could have retired last night.” Well, not like monetarily, but like spiritually, but I could have retired. And I love that you mentioned that because that’s what you’re bringing into the community. We’ve carved out this niche. We’re special. We’re not any better or any worse than anybody else, but we’re certainly unique in the way that we approach humans. And that is something that you so eloquently delivered today is like from start to finish, the people matter. Yeah. And meaningful moments that matter matter the most. And if we can find oursel in connection in that space with individuals, we not I or me have this beautiful opportunity to accomplish whatever we want to accomplish one day at a time. Absolutely. It’s wonderful. It is. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you. Thank you for showing up for me. Thank you for trusting in me. Thank you for believing in me when I didn’t believe in myself. You are a hero. You’re my person and I love you very much. Thank you. I love you, too. Until next time, my beautiful people. Happy New Year.